Welcome, Guest

### Author Topic: Bee Calculators  (Read 3104 times)

#### jsmob

• House Bee
• Posts: 116
##### Bee Calculators
« on: January 02, 2010, 08:00:55 PM »
Does anyone recall the web site to find the diffrent calculators to find out how much sugar it will take to feed your new beehives and so on?
Thaks!

#### Finski

• Galactic Bee
• Posts: 3928
• Gender:
##### Re: Bee Calculators
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2010, 01:54:56 AM »
.
Beekeeping does not go that way. You must look into your own hive what they need.

Feedieng reason are many: swarm, emergency, winter, build up,

To feed new beehive is mostly harmfull in summer because it take room from brood area and makes hives to swarm.
.
Language barrier NOT included

#### jimmyo

• House Bee
• Posts: 161
• Gender:
##### Re: Bee Calculators
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2010, 07:50:40 AM »
Some beeks feed 1:1 for building up in the spring and 2;1 for fall feeding. We are trying candy boards for overwintering this year. The candy is like an emergency food. They will only take it if they need it.
We figure 100 lbs of honey per hive per winter in our area. If you need to feed you will probably give them the feed until they quit taking it. It's all up to the bees as long as you make it available to them.
Jim

#### Finski

• Galactic Bee
• Posts: 3928
• Gender:
##### Re: Bee Calculators
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2010, 05:00:09 PM »

Hi Jimmy, I live at the level of Anchorage  but in Finland.

I feed on average 20 kg sugar to hives and itis enough from Sptember to April.

2-box langstroth hives consume about 25 kg sugar per hive and  one under 20 kg.

100 lbs= 50 kg is really too much to wintering bees. I cannot put so much food into 2-box hive.
I usually not need extra feeding.

If the hive has no insulation, it adds food consumption 50%.
In windy place mesh floor add moore.

From foreast I can see that you have real winter there now. at nigh -14C frost.

I suggest that you use as brood insulated boxes. You save a lot of honey.

Of course if you have not locally adapted bee strain, it can consume 100% more in winter than a good wintering hive.

.
.
Language barrier NOT included

#### jimmyo

• House Bee
• Posts: 161
• Gender:
##### Re: Bee Calculators
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2010, 07:07:57 PM »
Finski,
one of the main reasons our bees die in the winter is starvation. Sometimes they can't move to another frame until it warms up a little. If the hive is full of honey then there should be honey where ever they move in the box. In most winters we have a few frames of honey left over in each living hive.
We try to shelter our hives from the wind but haven't tried insulation. we are raising our own queens from our own stock so our winter survival rate should go up over time.
what would you suggest for insulation? the other main reason our bees die is moisture. I'd like to insulate without creating a moisture problem.
Jim

#### jsmob

• House Bee
• Posts: 116
##### Re: Bee Calculators
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2010, 09:14:08 PM »
But I am aware that none of this is hard since. That also when you feed and don't feed makes a differnts.
If I remmember correctly though, these where to help give a rough idea of how much sugar you may need to feed or how much they may produce. It was helpful for someone trying to figure out a budget for the year. A starting point.
Thank you Fiski its a start.

#### Tyro

• House Bee
• Posts: 115
• Gender:
##### Re: Bee Calculators
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2010, 09:15:30 PM »

#### jsmob

• House Bee
• Posts: 116
##### Re: Bee Calculators
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2010, 10:33:40 PM »
Tyro Thanks!
This is the exact site that I was looking for.

#### Wynoochee_newbee_guy

• House Bee
• Posts: 175
• Gender:
##### Re: Bee Calculators
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2010, 01:21:18 AM »
Finski,
what would you suggest for insulation? the other main reason our bees die is moisture. I'd like to insulate without creating a moisture problem.
Jim
Toss out black tar paper wrapping the best insulation is straw bales I stack losely around my hives to block the wind and it works well. never insulate from the inside the hive, make sure they have good ventilation and keep the hive dry inside.
Its All Fun And Games Till I lose an EYE!

#### Finski

• Galactic Bee
• Posts: 3928
• Gender:
##### Re: Bee Calculators
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2010, 01:31:17 AM »
Finski,
one of the main reasons our bees die in the winter is starvation.

When I started beekeeping, I had American siggle wall hives. They consumed so much food that every winter I lost some colony for starvarion. Then I added  an isulation boad aroung walls, but it made and moisture bock and wood start too rotten fast.

.
Quote
Sometimes they can't move to another frame until it warms up a little. If the hive is full of honey then there should be honey where ever they move in the box. In most winters we have a few frames of honey left over in each living hive. .

During last 20 years I have not lost any hive for cold starvation. If the hive has brood the whole winter, nothing can help it.

.
Language barrier NOT included

#### Finski

• Galactic Bee
• Posts: 3928
• Gender:
##### Re: Bee Calculators
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2010, 01:40:41 AM »

what would you suggest for insulation? the other main reason our bees die is moisture. I'd like to insulate without creating a moisture problem.
Jim

Now I have wintered my bees 20 years in polyhives. They are very light to handle when I migrate my hives every summer to rape and fireweef pastures and in Autumn I collect them into cttage yard.

I may bye or do my own plywood boxes which have insulation between  4 mm plywood. But they are expencive and not better than plastic.

I use single wooden boxes in summer. They I made  1966 when I ended my school.
Every box are still in duty.

.
Language barrier NOT included

#### Finski

• Galactic Bee
• Posts: 3928
• Gender:
##### Re: Bee Calculators
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2010, 01:49:28 AM »
That also when you feed and don't feed makes a differnts.

I take almost all honey away from hives in Autumn. Perhaps 5 kh honey per hive will remain in brood cells.

Then I  restrict hive to one or 2 boxes. I feed them with 63% syrup during 10 days.
One box hive takes its winter food in 2 days = 18 litre syrup/2 feeding boxes.

In spring many hives has too much food inside and I even capped frames between hives during spring.

.
Language barrier NOT included

#### Finski

• Galactic Bee
• Posts: 3928
• Gender:
##### Re: Bee Calculators
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2010, 01:54:40 AM »
.
In this graph our beekeeping researcher Seppo Korpela has just now different bee strains on the balance and he measures the food consumption.

Macedonica is from Creece and Carnica are from Middle Eorope.
Cajander is a famous beebreeder in Finland and that hive is his Italian race.

http://www.mtt.fi/bees/jokioinen09_10.htm

The difference is huge.
.
Language barrier NOT included

#### Finski

• Galactic Bee
• Posts: 3928
• Gender:
##### Re: Bee Calculators
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2010, 02:02:19 AM »
.
The moisture

I have solid bottoms . There is in back corners of bottom 2 holes with wire mesh.

Then normal  20 mm x 8 mm entrance open and the most important, the upper entrance open.

In upper cover I have wooden box wich bottom is 10 mm wood panel and 70 mm foam plastic matress.

As snow and wind cover I use piece of geotextile.

Just now I have around my hives 40 cm snow.

I myself live 100 miles away my hives and in these days I do nothing untill I dig them from snow at the beginning of March and take geoplancet off.
.
Language barrier NOT included

#### Wynoochee_newbee_guy

• House Bee
• Posts: 175
• Gender:
##### Re: Bee Calculators
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2010, 12:40:39 PM »
Use screaned bottom boards knocks down the dampness in a hive fast.
Its All Fun And Games Till I lose an EYE!

#### Finski

• Galactic Bee
• Posts: 3928
• Gender:
##### Re: Bee Calculators
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2010, 01:21:32 PM »
Use screaned bottom boards knocks down the dampness in a hive fast.

But it waistes heat too and bees must compesate that with eating.

The basic system against is "relative moisture".  When yu have a warm room, it is drier than cool room.

When you live in the house, and you have moist feeling, you may ventilate but if it is as wet outside, it does not help. But when you rise temperature, room air becomes dry.

I have  tried  with 6 hives screaned bottoms. In one box hives almost all 3 died because food consumption was almost 100% bigger than with solid bottom. In 2-box hives I did not noticed any special.
I suppose that win goes into the hive and polish the heat away. - Not good. It is wirse than thin walls.
.
Language barrier NOT included

#### bassman1977

• "King Bee"
• Super Bee
• Posts: 1788
• Gender:
##### Re: Bee Calculators
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2010, 02:54:30 PM »
Finsky, have you ever propped up the inner cover at all and if so, what did you find?  I do it on my hives and have had good success with keeping moisture down, but I am considerably lower latitude than you and I'm sure your results are probably very different.  I prop them up one side about 1/8 of an inch.
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(''')_(''')

#### Finski

• Galactic Bee
• Posts: 3928
• Gender:
##### Re: Bee Calculators
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2010, 01:46:53 AM »
Finsky, have you ever propped up the inner cover at all and if so, what did you find? .

I do not quite understand but is it a bigger gap between frames and inner cover?

The system must be so that inner covers insulation must be better than in sidewalls.
When inner cover is warmest place, it does not condensate moisture.
Sidewalls can condensate moisture and the water goes to the bottom.

The upper entrance is essential with solid bottom.
But after cleansing, when bees start to rear brood, they raise the the temp from 23 to 32, and hive will be dry without upper entrance, It even makes bees feel better in their box.
.
Language barrier NOT included

#### bassman1977

• "King Bee"
• Super Bee
• Posts: 1788
• Gender:
##### Re: Bee Calculators
« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2010, 09:30:24 AM »
Quote
I do not quite understand but is it a bigger gap between frames and inner cover?

No, it's just enough to let the condensation out but wind and the elements stay out because the outer cover can protects the opening.  Where I am, I have seen a lot of condensation gather on the inner cover when it's not propped up.  Since I started doing this, no problems.
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(''')_(''')

#### Finski

• Galactic Bee
• Posts: 3928
• Gender:
##### Re: Bee Calculators
« Reply #19 on: January 05, 2010, 02:20:11 PM »

No, it's just enough to let the condensation out

Via what?

Quote
Since I started doing this, no problems.

I don't understand that. I have no condensation problems either.

I have warm hives and consumption of winterfood is from Semptember to end of April  on average 20 kg sugar.

No starvation problems.
Nosema makes nuisance every winter. That I compensate with 20% extra hives.

***************

I learned moisture lesson when I lost 6 hives 40 years ago. None of these had upper entrance.

Just now we have here  -10C to -20C frost and sometimes a bad wind.

.
.
Language barrier NOT included

#### bassman1977

• "King Bee"
• Super Bee
• Posts: 1788
• Gender:
##### Re: Bee Calculators
« Reply #20 on: January 05, 2010, 03:45:41 PM »
Quote
Via what?

Just normal air movement from inside the hive.

Quote
I don't understand that. I have no condensation problems either.

I have warm hives and consumption of winterfood is from Semptember to end of April  on average 20 kg sugar.

No starvation problems.
Nosema makes nuisance every winter. That I compensate with 20% extra hives.

***************

I learned moisture lesson when I lost 6 hives 40 years ago. None of these had upper entrance.

Just now we have here  -10C to -20C frost and sometimes a bad wind.

I dunno...I'm just telling you what I have going on.  Our winters are not nearly as bad as yours so maybe that is the difference maker.  :-)
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(''')_(''')

#### Finski

• Galactic Bee
• Posts: 3928
• Gender:
##### Re: Bee Calculators
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2010, 04:00:07 PM »
Quote
Via what?

Just normal air movement from inside the hive.

That is quite true.

However the main point is that  25 kg food stores generate 10 litre water via respiration, and that must be ventilated off  - but during long time.

.
.
Language barrier NOT included

anything