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Author Topic: ...Certain Truths Are Self-Evident....  (Read 1106 times)
Brian D. Bray
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« on: December 31, 2009, 11:25:19 PM »

I've been doing a lot of thinking lately about those self-evident truths referred to in our Declaration of Independence. 
It is from these truths that we our inalienable rights.

The truth must be at it's most basic definition to qualify for the list I'm compiling.

Help in developing the list of truths, along with the associated inalienable rights, would be appreciated.

Here's what I've come up with so far.
1. LIFE:  Life exists.  Any organism that reacts within its environment has life.  Creationism and Evolutionist argue over how life began.  The argument is an exercise in futility as both theories are mutually inclusive.
2. The ID:  I think, therefore I am.  The intelligence that comprises a life form.
3. Responsibility: An entity is responsible only to themselves.  I'm not responsible for your life and you're not responsible for mine. 
4. Reciprocity:  The agreement between 2 or more entities for mutual welfare.  The basis of society or civilization.
5. Choice:  To do or not to do, that is the question.  With choice comes the consequence.
6. Reproduction:  The continuation of a species is it's primary goal.  Any act that nullifies reproduction is not a truth.


You may notice that the inalienable rights are derived from Responsibility (life), Reciprocity (Liberty), and Choice (the Pursuit of Happyness).
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Life is a school.  What have you learned?   Brian      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!
Bee Happy
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« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2010, 02:45:42 AM »

It almost reads like a math formula for living self-aware.
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« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2010, 03:19:02 AM »

Thats a load of garbage, you should get more sleep.

Life exists, you cant place your own definition on it. To live you exist, to exist you must live.

I think therefore I am? Do worms think?

Responsibility: Uh sorry I just Tboned your car and killed your kids, but hey, im not responsible for you.

Reciprocity: I dont find this in the the Declaration anywhere.

Choice, yes thats what a choice is, am I missing something?

Reproduction: Got nothing to do with anything.

Are you sure you read the Declaration of Independence and not a high school philosophy book? Youre not talking about truths of any sort. Are you sure youre not trying to invent a religion?
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Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2010, 08:28:32 PM »


Thats a load of garbage, you should get more sleep.

Life exists, you cant place your own definition on it. To live you exist, to exist you must live.

Knee jerk response, think about it a little bit. If I can't a definition to it it doesn't exist, so your answer is self-defeating.

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I think therefore I am? Do worms think?

That's a good question, do they?  Is reasoning thinking?  Do bees think?  They can accommndate learned response, which demonstrates so type of reasoning function.  Define intelligence.

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Responsibility: Uh sorry I just Tboned your car and killed your kids, but hey, im not responsible for you.

You are responsible for your actions, not someone elses.  You Tbone someones car and kill their kids you are responsible not only for the carelessness, but the destruction and grief done to others as a result. 

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Reciprocity: I dont find this in the the Declaration anywhere.

Just because it is not mentioned does not mean it isn't a truth, most of what is cited in the Declaration are inalienable rights which are sub-texts of truths.  Truths are the most basic concepts, inalienable rights are components of a truth. Can you see the difference?
Resprocity is the interaction between life forms for mutual benefit, it is the basic cornerstone of civilization.

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Choice, yes thats what a choice is, am I missing something?

Evidently a lot! Choice is the excercise of free will, without it you have life without function.

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Reproduction: Got nothing to do with anything.

Think not?  Without reproduction life is unsustainable.

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Are you sure you read the Declaration of Independence and not a high school philosophy book? Youre not talking about truths of any sort. Are you sure youre not trying to invent a religion?


No, I already have a religion, I'm trying to boil concepts to  their lowest common denomenator.  It is obvious that neither person who has answered so far is a deep thinker or understands the concepts upon which the discussion was predicated.
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Life is a school.  What have you learned?   Brian      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!
beecanbee
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« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2010, 10:57:52 PM »

2. The ID:  I think, therefore I am.  The intelligence that comprises a life form.

Somewhere I read if differently - as: I am, therefore I think.  This of course being in reference to humans.  Not sure that this changes anything.

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6. Reproduction:  The continuation of a species is it's primary goal.  Any act that nullifies reproduction is not a truth.

Not so sure.  In my acts of procreation, I certainly was not thinking of continuation of the species.  I probably wasn't thinking at all, but if I was thinking - it was only about the moment and momentary pleasure.  And if it is pleasure that is the goal of my act of procreation - then so too is the act of abortion (nullification of reproduction) - in that abortion can be seen as an act of pain-avoidance.  Said differently - first comes consumption(food), then reproduction (but only as an after effect of consumption - or pleasure/pain-avoidance).  And, consumption can lead to nullification of (killing off of) the species.  In summary - continuation of the species is an after effect of consumption, and not a goal at all.

As for inalienable rights, those are what some ancients once said they are/should be - and can be alienated (removed) by anyone with the power and inclination to do so.  It is their nature as fleeting and transitory than makes us all the more vigilant in wanting to protect them.

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« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2010, 07:45:40 PM »

Brian has said of the truths referred to in the Declaration,not spelled out in the Declaration.I believe the Constitution came about trying to spell out some of the references.
I have not read all of the federalist papers,but some of these get down to what our founders were trying to establish in this republic.
ID is referring to intelligent design,as our forefathers were believers in a God of greater power.
Rights also come with responsibility. It is every free mans responsibility to protect our freedoms that are a basic right. (Of which people nowadays seem to be void of this responsibility).
If we do not preserve freedom,our children may never be free.Back to being responsible.
Overall I think Americans have given up many of their rights trying to relieve themselves of responsibility.In the end we live the lives we have created
If we defer our responsibilities to someone else,we give them the power to dictate us.
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