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Author Topic: Amazing New Smoker  (Read 10667 times)
BoBn
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« Reply #40 on: December 21, 2009, 02:27:13 PM »

  Hope they don't run into issues with folks keeping their finger on the igniter button and burning the insides up. 
From what I understand, the heat unit can take it.
Quote from: lakeman
I did not see much smoke compared to what I make,
It will generate lots more smoke if the heat button is held down longer.  The operation of the smoker in the video was in "real time" from a cold start with the heater energized for 3 seconds or so.
Quote from:  BeeHopper
I did find the video a little annoying, the part of the "Veteran Beekeeper" unable to start his smoker, the guy by all counts should be an "Expert" in starting his Smoker in an instant.
That only works when nobody is watching. grin
Quote from: HAB
Dag Nab Man,  I was so in hopes of becoming the next "Billy Mays"
I had to ask my kids who Billy Mays was.
 You can have the job.  I got an education about how much work it is to produce a video.
Quote from: Natalie
Hey Bob, good to see you, remember me? I was the quiet girl that sat in front of you during the conference.
Hi Natalie! Smiley

~~~~~~~~~~

When I started this thread, I thought that Dan & Edith were going to market it through beekeeping supply companies. 
They are planning on showing it at the various beekeeping conferences. 


 
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« Reply #41 on: December 21, 2009, 03:17:12 PM »

  Hope they don't run into issues with folks keeping their finger on the igniter button and burning the insides up. 
From what I understand, the heat unit can take it.

That good,  is was just going by the disclaimer on the website

WARNING:  Improper use of the Bee-Z-Smoker will cause a fire to start in the smoker canister.   Any fire damage to the Bee-Z-Smoker will void warranty claims.

But who knows, now a days with our sue happy country, most disclaimers are just to protect one's butt regardless if they are truly needed or not.
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deknow
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« Reply #42 on: December 21, 2009, 04:24:44 PM »

the part that is the least attractive to me (although they seem to call it a "feature") is the fact that the battery is propriatary.  to buy a product from a small company that relies on propriatary batteries is something that i'd personally avoid doing.  ditto with the heating element.

one of the best features of the maxant bottling tanks is that the heating element and/or thermostat are replaceable with a standard, off the shelf part.

i feel the opposite of an earlier poster, i think this is better suited to someone with a few hives in the backyard who occasionally needs a puff of smoke than someone that is going through hundreds of hives.

there is certainly a learning curve to keeping a smoker lit, but it just not that hard.  having a smoker that can be lit with a match, fuled with almost anything found in the field, and can be abused, caked up with resins and still work perfectly has a lot of advantages.

i'm sure there is a market for this thing, but if i were to advise a new beekeeper (one without unlimited funds), i'd tell them to buy another hive rather than an instant light smoker.

deknow
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magnet-man
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« Reply #43 on: December 29, 2009, 03:16:33 AM »

I feel deknow is correct in that it is suited to the backyard beekeeper who wants a quick and easy smoke. Remember it is the backyard beekeeper that has the hardest time lighting a smoker and likes to look in their two or three hives a lot. There are backyard beekeepers with lots of money out there, but I am not sure if there is enough to recoup all of the tooling cost this thing required.

As far as the battery pack it really isn't proprietary, in that a replacement pack can be made up by a place like Batteries Plus. They will replace the batteries in a cordless drill battery case and I have had them makeup battery packs for my son's battery powered plane. An interesting idea would have been to design the smoker to take the battery pack from an 18 volt Dewalt cordless drill. Then they would be able to sell the unit with or without the battery and charger and keep the price down and likely increase sales enough to overcome the lower price. It would make the smoker a lot more attractive.

I did notice their warranty void notice and I suspect the connector wires burn up. The heating element replacement at $35 is a bit high in my book. The connecting wire likely needs to be replace with a fire poof wire similar to what is used in cook tops.

If they can get the price down to $100, I believe it will sell. I hope they succeed, because they look like the put a have a lot of money in developing the product.


The key to lighting a smoker with a match is very dry tender and fuel, or use a propane torch.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2009, 08:05:23 AM by magnet-man » Logged

lakeman
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« Reply #44 on: December 29, 2009, 06:34:11 AM »

A year ago, I had never seen, and did not know what a smoker was (I would have thought it was a cigarette smoker). But, since about my third time trying to light my new smoker last spring, I have never had trouble lighting, and keeping my smoker lit. A few hands full of dry pine needles, and a propane torch, and it is going strong. I think these people are wasting their time, and there investment.
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« Reply #45 on: December 29, 2009, 10:26:19 AM »

An interesting idea would have been to design the smoker to take the battery pack from an 18 volt Dewalt cordless drill.

The only way to do this is to get an agreement with Dewalt.  The various cordless tool companies will (and have many times) quickly respond to any 3rd party company that uses their batteries with legal threats and lawsuits. 

If you think about it, it makes sense.  They are defending their product reputation and their own patented battery system.
 
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« Reply #46 on: December 29, 2009, 12:41:38 PM »

Sorry I don't buy that argument. There are generic replacement Dewalt battery packs on the market now and Dewalt sells both the charger and batteries. It isn't like they are making a generic drill which uses Dewalt batteries where the public would confuse their generic drill as a Dewalt drill. Sure their product is yellow like Dewalt but the product could have been made orange and would look nothing like a Dewalt product. Bottom line is the product is too expensive and by designing the product to use an existing battery pack that a lot of beekeepers already have would make it easier to justify purchasing.

Hey, I don't have a cordless drill. Hum looks like a good excuse for the wife.

I did post a link to their web site on that other bee forum.
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« Reply #47 on: January 06, 2010, 08:20:04 PM »

Sorry I don't buy that argument.


Do you know of any 3rd party product that uses Dewalt (or Makita, etc.) battery packs for power?
I don't think that any exist, but if you do know of any, please let me know.

There are several past and current cases in litigation involving 3rd party battery suppliers being sued under for infringement of "copyrighted battery pack design" under the DMCA.

BTW, I do work with wireless signal transducers and I get battery components from here:
http://www.batterystation.com/

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"Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one-half the world fools and the other half hypocrites."
--Thomas Jefferson
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« Reply #48 on: January 06, 2010, 11:35:36 PM »

Quote
Do you know of any 3rd party product that uses Dewalt (or Makita, etc.) battery packs for power?
I don't think that any exist, but if you do know of any, please let me know.


Used to start small gas engines.

Company that makes battery pack adapters.

I have seen others over the years but not many. Almost purchased an electric starter for my John Deere lawnmower that took a cordless drill battery pack.

Regardless of the battery issue the smoker is too expensive to succeed. They have to get the price down below $100.
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« Reply #49 on: January 07, 2010, 07:27:55 PM »

Quote
Do you know of any 3rd party product that uses Dewalt (or Makita, etc.) battery packs for power?
I don't think that any exist, but if you do know of any, please let me know.


Used to start small gas engines.


The device is sold without a battery and charger.  
Quote
Regardless of the battery issue the smoker is too expensive to succeed. They have to get the price down below $100.

If they sold it without a battery and charger, it probably would be so.

So, do you think that they should try to sell a "power tool" without a battery and charger?  

Dan told me that they did attempt to make the Bee-Z-Smoker work with an off-the-shelf battery, but the tool manufacturer did not want to speak with them and certainly did not, under any circumstances, want their battery being used in another companies device.


This smoker is a very nice tool.  Before you pass judgment on it, try it out.  

Bee-Z-Smoker is offering a $25 discount with the promo coupon A012010 for the Orlando show.  They also offer a bee club discount, but the club needs to call directly for the offer.  

They also have a couple more videos:


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"Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one-half the world fools and the other half hypocrites."
--Thomas Jefferson
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« Reply #50 on: January 08, 2010, 11:08:45 AM »

So, do you think that they should try to sell a "power tool" without a battery and charger? 


Then they would be able to sell the unit with or without the battery and charger and keep the price down and likely increase sales enough to overcome the lower price. It would make the smoker a lot more attractive.



I have thought about purchasing one just to complete my collection of smokers.


Currently the only smoker I don't have is shown at dave-cushman.net.

"This smoker has no bellows at all, it is spring driven (clockwork) and has a metal fan that provides the draught. It is known as a 'Vulcan' smoker.
Similar to the Vulcan there is an almost identical version that is powered by a torch battery.
Both of the bellow less smokers have switches or levers to allow the delivery of smoke to be regulated. I used to sell both of these types when I was in business, but I would sell two or three hundred 'normal ones' to every clockwork or battery one sold.

I have been told by a friend that the battery version tends to overheat the battery, but I have no personal experience of actually using either type myself."


 
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Robo
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« Reply #51 on: January 08, 2010, 12:19:30 PM »

Currently the only smoker I don't have is shown at dave-cushman.net.


Magnet-man,

Do you have one like this?   I've only ever seen one other and that was on eBay a few years ago.  Would love to know more about it if you have any knowledge of it.



Thanks...
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magnet-man
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« Reply #52 on: January 08, 2010, 07:01:58 PM »

Well Robo I haven't seen this one. Did some quick research on German web sites and apparently the company made a lot of fire extinguishers. The other one on ebay that you saw was it exactly the same? Can you post some more pictures showing the opposite side and the connection between the bellows and the can? Is that a rip in the brass sheeting on the left?
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« Reply #53 on: January 08, 2010, 10:13:19 PM »

Well I think you just ruined my day.   I think you are right, it may just be a fire extinguisher.  Someone gave it to my dad close to 40 years ago and I was always told it was a bee smoker (that is why the person gave it to him).  I've also seen the colonial type where they put a fire pot on the end of a bellow, so I just thought this was a more elaborate version of that.  I just did a closer inspection and took some pictures and found that the bellow pumps air into the bottom of the canister and the outlet is also in the bottom of the canister.   there is a rod attached to the bellow handle that moves what appears to be an agitator in the canister and another knob on the canister that adjusts the sizes of the holes in the canister plate.  So it seems it would make a better dry chemical fire extinguisher than a smoker  :'(

Guess that is why I've only ever seen one other.  Least I'm not the only one that thought it was a smoker rolleyes




Thanks for helping me out.  Although not what I expected to hear,  I'm glad I know more about it now.

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« Reply #54 on: January 10, 2010, 07:43:06 PM »

Sorry! Sad
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« Reply #55 on: January 11, 2010, 07:50:43 PM »

$150 with the $25 discount applied for a smoker is just too much money for me... I like the concept and it would be perfect for people with a lot of hives. Maybe when I get 10 or more hives in one apiary it would be worth it.

Nice videos! And I do really like everything about it, just not the price. I do understand there are development and patent costs.
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