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Author Topic: 1st year Beek, 1st cutout this weekend....  (Read 10938 times)
JP
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I like doing cut-outs, but I love catching swarms!


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« Reply #40 on: December 13, 2009, 02:10:13 PM »

Sometimes bees will ingest a bunch of honey if the hive is full up with honey. The bees may then regurgitate in the inner box and you're left with a sticky mess of mostly dead bees. Sometimes its better using the vac sparingly if at all.

You may have not done anything wrong, but perhaps over used the vac.


...JP
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Meadlover
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« Reply #41 on: December 13, 2009, 06:37:46 PM »

The dead bees could have been caused from several things, bees gotoo hot in the vac, vac sucking too hard and tumbled the bees to death, honey soaked bees will stick together and sort of drown and/or over heat.

G3

Meadlover. You don't think the vent to the vac was not open enough and made the vac to strong, slaming them around to much, do you ?

I think I had a combination of all 3 things working against me - overheating, excessive suction and drowning.
I need to re-read over some beevac threads and websites and redesign mine.
I think the overheating was probably the main killer. Might put a window of mesh in one side with a slide cover so that I can give them some water, as well as give them some more ventilation.
Soooooo much to learn........

ML
« Last Edit: December 13, 2009, 09:55:59 PM by Meadlover » Logged
Lone
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« Reply #42 on: December 13, 2009, 09:49:43 PM »

ML,

I've only been involved in tree cutouts, not bedrooms, and I've never even thought about using a bee vac.  But if I did..I would probably try to vac up a couple of bees and see if they survive, before vaccing a whole colony.  Usually we have scooped, brushed or tipped the majority of bees into a super, and if the rest of the bees go into the super, then we are sure we have the queen.  I suppose if you were quick and bees hadn't moved out of the combs, you could try and put the brood combs in the super, and there would be a fair chance of getting the queen.  We stay until dark, take the super home, then sort out the frames the next day.  But with trees, you don't have the difficulty of dark recesses, working above your head, and live electric wires.
My advice would be to clean the house with the bee vac and if your girlfriend thinks it's spotless, then you probably have the suction up too high.
Well, I'm looking forward to your next tale with the swarm.
Lone
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Meadlover
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« Reply #43 on: December 13, 2009, 09:53:04 PM »

a trap out will work in a couple of days if they just moved in. They have no food and will leave quickly. The queen will likely not go in the trap box, so you need to have the owner watching. She will land on a nearby tree or bush, a a normal swarm. You can then drop them into the hive as you would a swarm.

Sounds good iddee, but with only 1 hive (which I recently took 2 frames from to make a nuc) I think it would really weaken it to remove a frame of brood with eggs. Not sure I want to risk my only hive at this stage.
Maybe I'll try a trapout with a frame or 2 of old dark comb & lemongrass oil, and just see if that attracts some in there?

The owners still haven't made up their mind on what to do yet, but if they call me today I will drop in on my way home to check out the situation. I believe the wall is in a large living area, so maybe not the best to do a cutout in?
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Meadlover
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« Reply #44 on: December 13, 2009, 09:59:37 PM »

Sometimes bees will ingest a bunch of honey if the hive is full up with honey. The bees may then regurgitate in the inner box and you're left with a sticky mess of mostly dead bees. Sometimes its better using the vac sparingly if at all.

You may have not done anything wrong, but perhaps over used the vac.


...JP
There was a large mass of sticky dead bees in the hive yesterday so you might be right there JP.
I guess I can treat it as a learning experience and remember what I did wrong next time.

Next is to add a mesh screen on top of the vac, and a slide in-out board to seal off when vacuuming I think.
Might pick up a sheet of Polycarbonate this week so I have a window to see them through next time.

ML
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Meadlover
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« Reply #45 on: December 13, 2009, 10:07:15 PM »

Here's something I have been thinking about - options for the future of my cutout hive.

1. Queen is alive - leave in box or transfer to nuc box if really weak.
2. Queenless - they start making queen cells. They raise a queen. Leave in box or transfer to nuc.
3. Queenless - they start making queens cells but no eggs or young larvae. Cut a small piece of comb from my main hive containing eggs (a piece around 1" x 2" large).
4. Queenless - they start making queens cells but no eggs or young larvae. Transfer to main hive to boost numbers slightly.

In option 3 will they move the eggs/larvae into the queen cells? Will they turn those eggs into queen cells or will they just leave them there?

Thanks

ML
« Last Edit: December 14, 2009, 12:49:33 AM by Meadlover » Logged
SlickMick
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« Reply #46 on: December 13, 2009, 11:46:26 PM »

So what is the status of your cutout  now Mat?

Have you got enough bees to look after the brood comb or did you lose them also?

I hope that you ended up with something for all your efforts

Mick
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JP
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I like doing cut-outs, but I love catching swarms!


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« Reply #47 on: December 13, 2009, 11:57:24 PM »

ML, you actually have another option on this colony that just moved in. If you infiltrate the void space with something like beequick (the one I would recommend) from the backside of the void space, you could get them to leave on their own. This would essentially be a forced trap out, not necessarily requiring the catch box to contain eggs/brood. They are more inclined to leave especially so if there is little or no brood in the void space now.

BTW, I have done this very thing I have suggested on a few very young colonies. I joust them out and induce a swarm. I did one this past season, set up a swarm trap and after the swarm was evicted from a brick exterior/sheet rock interior wall, they went into the trap, along with the queen.


...JP
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"Good friends are as sweet as honey" Winne the Pooh

My pictures can be viewed at http://picasaweb.google.com/pyxicephalus
and
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My Youtube videos can be viewed here: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=JPthebeeman&aq=f

My website JPthebeeman.com http://www.jpthebeeman.com/jpthebeeman/
Meadlover
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« Reply #48 on: December 14, 2009, 07:11:16 AM »

So what is the status of your cutout  now?

Have you got enough bees to look after the brood comb or did you lose them also?

I hope that you ended up with something for all your efforts

Mick

Mick,

I ended up with I think 5-6 frames of brood, 2 of honey, then put 2 foundation in there too.
In comparison to a strong hive with 10 frames in it, this cutout hive is certainly low on numbers. When I was cutting out the hive I saw a couple of SHB so that is my main concern ATM, that there won't be enough bees to protect the brood from the SHB.
I will be going out to the hive on Friday so will see how it is going then. If it looks bad, I will transfer as much brood as possible to my other hive, and add all the bees to try to boost it's number a bit. If it's looking OK I will try to add some eggs from my main hive so they can raise a queen of their own.

ML
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Meadlover
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« Reply #49 on: December 14, 2009, 07:28:33 AM »

ML, you actually have another option on this colony that just moved in. If you infiltrate the void space with something like beequick (the one I would recommend) from the backside of the void space, you could get them to leave on their own. This would essentially be a forced trap out, not necessarily requiring the catch box to contain eggs/brood. They are more inclined to leave especially so if there is little or no brood in the void space now.

BTW, I have done this very thing I have suggested on a few very young colonies. I joust them out and induce a swarm. I did one this past season, set up a swarm trap and after the swarm was evicted from a brick exterior/sheet rock interior wall, they went into the trap, along with the queen.


...JP

Thanks JP, sounds like a nice quick easy option with a quick result, but unfortunately I don't think that stuff is available in Australia Sad
Is there anything else that would repel them and make them swarm? A crapload of smoke as Lone suggested maybe??

I didn't hear back today from the 2nd call I got, maybe they are still deciding what to do. Would love to haver a crack at that hive too though.

ML
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Meadlover
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« Reply #50 on: December 14, 2009, 07:47:51 AM »

Here's some photos of my 1st cutout that I did on the weekend. As iddee suggested I left myself the whole day, and it took a whole day. From when I turned up to when I left was 8 hours. I'm sure every one I do from now on I will get quicker, more efficient, and kill less bees (I hope  embarassed).
Anyhow I haven't really used ImagShack before so I hope I've added these photos properly.

ML






























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iddee
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« Reply #51 on: December 14, 2009, 08:55:27 AM »

On the swarm..... Trap out into the removal hive. Let them sort out the queen problem.

PS. The SHB will have them dead by Friday. You need to get back before that. Like NOW!!!

We need a photo of the vacuum.

Go here, http://s81.photobucket.com/albums/j226/Iddee/BEE%20VAC/ and to Robo's site, and build one like one of them. They are the two best there are.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2009, 05:43:59 PM by iddee » Logged

"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Meadlover
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« Reply #52 on: December 14, 2009, 04:28:53 PM »

We need a photo of the vacuum.

Go here,  http://s81.photobucket.com/albums/j226/Iddee/BEE%20VAC/,  and to Robo's site, and build one like one of them. They are the two best there are.

Iddee, that link didn't work for me, but I have checked out Robbo's design and that will be version 2 for me. I like it as it has a much larger surface area for the baffle (hardware cloth) than the one I made, plus it sucks them straight into their new hive, plus the additional ventilation after catching them. Just need to find somewhere to get harware cloth at a decent price in Brisbane.......

I'll try to remember to take a photo of my frankenbeevac tonight.

PS. The SHB will have them dead by Friday. You need to get back before that. Like NOW!!!

Bugger, sounds like I should have put the brood and bees into my other hive to strengthen them rather than leaving them in an entire 10 frame box. The problem I have now it that I don't have another nuc box, although I got half way through building one last night. I am worried if I put the brood into my other hive it may already have SHB eggs in it and destroy my main hive.
Should I right off all the brood comb from the cutout and just shake the bees into my main hive??? Seems like such a terrible waste of good brood comb.

ML

« Last Edit: December 14, 2009, 04:44:30 PM by Meadlover » Logged
iddee
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« Reply #53 on: December 14, 2009, 05:46:08 PM »

I modified the link. It seems to be working now.

I wouldn't combine them. I would just bring them home where I could monitor them daily and maybe use an SHB trap, or remove SHB larva and eggs.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Meadlover
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« Reply #54 on: December 14, 2009, 07:11:59 PM »

I modified the link. It seems to be working now.

I wouldn't combine them. I would just bring them home where I could monitor them daily and maybe use an SHB trap, or remove SHB larva and eggs.

I built my beevac using yours as an example, will see what you think when I post some pics later.

The hive that I put the cutout into has a SHB trap in the base, maybe not the best design, but better than nothing.
Might pop out to the hive tonight, bring it back and keep it at my house........somewhere. That's probably what I should have done on the weekend. Geez by the time I do all these trips to and from the 'beeyard' I could have just bought a healthy new nuc. Ah well, it's all a learning curve I guess.

ML
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« Reply #55 on: December 14, 2009, 08:19:19 PM »

you can shake a frame of workers from your strong hive, into your cutout hive.  just make sure you don't shake your queen in  smiley

i don't use a vac.  haven't gotten around to making one yet.  i would think that it would be most useful in picking up the leftover clumps of bees after you are done cutting out the hive.  i don't know if that's how others use them, but i would not clear the hive with one.  most of the time i can get the brood comb out with many bees on it, and fit it into the hive.  that way i get at least enough to cover the brood....and most of the time the queen is there also.  once she is in, a lot of those flying bees will settle on her/your box, and that's when i would want the vac.   there are always stubborn clumps of bees that don't want to go in smiley

you will find your own way of doing things and there is no way except to do them.  from your pics, it looks like you are off to a good start.  

BTW...looks like a lot of brood.  hope you got the queen. 
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« Reply #56 on: December 14, 2009, 08:22:42 PM »

Meadlover. Well documented with all of the great pictures, cheesy  except for the last one. Cry
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Lone
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« Reply #57 on: December 15, 2009, 06:51:58 AM »

Fantastic photos, ML.  It was almost like being there.
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iddee
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« Reply #58 on: December 15, 2009, 11:08:28 AM »

I think you missed this in the 1st reply.

>>>>Combine on site and let settle til dark.
Just pour the bees into the brood box.<<<<

Also, mine has 4 35mm screened holes, 2 on each side, and a 2 3/4 inch hole in the end. I duct tape the holes closed while using, and remove one piece at a time to reduce vacuum until they come in gently. Then remove them all as soon as I'm finished. Then I combine them ASAP.

I can also remove the bottom and set it on the hive, to draw them straight onto the frames. It works both ways.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Meadlover
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« Reply #59 on: December 15, 2009, 04:33:06 PM »

PS. The SHB will have them dead by Friday. You need to get back before that. Like NOW!!!

We need a photo of the vacuum.
You were right about the SHB iddee - dam they are quick to over run a hive! I took out 2 heavily infested frames (1 mainly empty comb with a little brood and honey, the 2nd a full comb of brood), wrapped them in newspaper and put in the freezer to kill everything. The other frames looked OK but I guess I will find out by the end of the week just how bad they are.
I reduced the entrance to <1/3 and also added a ziplock bag of 5:3 sugar water.

Didn't get a chance for the photo of frankenvac, was a late night by the time I had the hive sorted. Will get a photo up soon though.

you can shake a frame of workers from your strong hive, into your cutout hive.  just make sure you don't shake your queen in  smiley
Kathy, my main hive isn't very strong, it's good, but not strong. The reason being is that I have already used a frame of brood and bees, plus shook off a frame of bees a few months back to boost a hive (post SHB infestation), and about 2 weeks ago I took 2 frames out to make a nuc hive (bought a mated queen for the nuc). Really don't think I should do anything more to weaken that hive this season (there's not a great amount of nectar or pollen coming in as it's so dry here at the moment).

Meadlover. Well documented with all of the great pictures, cheesy  except for the last one. Cry
Yeah I'm not very happy about the end result, but maybe someone can learn something from my mistakes  Cry

I think you missed this in the 1st reply.

>>>>Combine on site and let settle til dark.
Just pour the bees into the brood box.<<<<
No I got that one iddee, did I misinterpret something or do it wrong? - I vac'd them up, put brood comb into the frames and into the brood box, then poured them on top of the brood - see my 2nd last photo. (I do believe that they sat in the vac for way too long and overheated though)


ML
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