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Author Topic: 1st year Beek, 1st cutout this weekend....  (Read 10789 times)
Meadlover
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« on: December 08, 2009, 07:02:54 PM »

Unfortunately due to SHB I am down to 1 hive, but thanks to SlickMick he has put me onto a cutout, so hopefully will have 2 hives by Sunday.

I have a few questions in regard to doing this cut out, and being my 1st attempt, and my 1st year as a beek I am a bit nervous.
I have been going through as many threads in the removals section as possible over the last few days but am still a bit hazy on a few things. The hive has been inside a house wall for a month or more. The house is brick outside, gyprock inside. The owner has sprayed the hive but just annoyed them by doing so. He is happy to cut out the gyprock as he is looking at renovating and painting the room soon anyway.

Here is my plan:
1. Inspect the area tomorrow after work. Don't plan to actually do anything.
2. Turn up Saturday morning with all my gear (as much as I have that's on the "cutout equipment list")
3. Smoke all visible entrances
4. Lay down tarp
5. Remove gyprock (owner indicated he may give me a hand)
6. More smoke, leave for a few minutes
7. Brush bees off (or vac off if I get a beevac made by friday night) working from the outside combs in towards the brood comb
9. Cut out brood comb and place in frames with Rubber Bands
10. Remove all remaining comb and honey
11. Let the owner clean the rest up and fix the damage.
Have I missed anything or any major concerns?

Initially my main concerns are not hitting any power inside the wall, then keeping destruction of his house to a minimum. Any hints?

Secondly at this point I visualize that I will have a super of brood, plus a super/box of bees.
What is the best way to handle them now? Move them separately, then combine, or wait till dark, combine, then move them?

Lastly what is the best way to combine them? I am hoping to have vacuumed the bees into a super and have the comb in another super. Should I put the brood box on top of the bee box, bee box on top of brood box, or just pour the bees into the brood box?

Thanks

ML
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iddee
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« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2009, 09:28:08 PM »

If you do #7 & #9 properly, there will be NO #10. Remove ALL non-brood comb before removing brood.

Combine on site and let settle til dark.
Just pour the bees into the brood box.

To safely cut into gyprock, first break a hole into it with a hammer. Measure it to see if it's 3/8, 1/2, or 5/8 inch. Set the blade on a razor blade knife at that depth.
Cut the size square you want to remove, pry it out at the edge, and remove it. Continue with other squares.

Your other steps seem to be in order.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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beee farmer
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« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2009, 09:35:53 PM »

Iddee,
  I use a roto zip tool and set the depth (after checking board thickness) to where all that is left is the inside paper. its a real time and labor saver.
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G3farms
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« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2009, 10:02:11 PM »

When you cut the comb out just keep it orientated to which way is up and put it in the frames as so. With it being in a wall it might take two or three pieces cut up to fill a frame.

A bee vac is a very valuable tool to have, it will keep the bees out of you way and let you work more easily.

A couple of five gallon buckets are very handy for scrap comb, fill one of them with water to rinse the honey off of your gloves or hands.

I find that a long serrated knife works the best for cutting combs, you can kind of "saw" the combs into.

Tell the home owner to use silicone caulk to plug up the holes on the outside.

Take the camera, it is winter on us yanks and want to see some warm weather pics of bees flying Wink

Good luck with it. No need to be nervous you will see it is just like going through a hive, just a little rougher.

G3
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see my swarms and cut outs at https://www.youtube.com/user/soapy22bullet?feature=mhee

those hot bees will have you steppin and a fetchin like your heads on fire and your @ss is a catchin!!!

Bees will be bees and do as they please!
G3farms
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« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2009, 10:04:05 PM »

beefarmer that roto zip tool sound like a winner to me, I am going to see if I can find one in the pawn shop for cheap.

G3
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see my swarms and cut outs at https://www.youtube.com/user/soapy22bullet?feature=mhee

those hot bees will have you steppin and a fetchin like your heads on fire and your @ss is a catchin!!!

Bees will be bees and do as they please!
iddee
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« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2009, 10:20:14 PM »

a roto zip is nice, but a broken bit in the middle of a cut out is a bigger problem than a broken razor blade. Don't ask how I know. Also, some cutouts don't have electricity handy. The handiest high tech tool I have for cutouts is the temperature light.

>>>>Tell the home owner to use silicone caulk to plug up the holes on the outside.<<<<

Double that statement. Common caulk won't work. The next swarm will remove it. It must be silicone.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
Meadlover
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« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2009, 10:50:36 PM »

Excellent, some really simple yet great advice I hadn't thought of, thanks guys, really appreciate the help.
iddee - a hammer and a razor blade hey - so simple, I love it. The lower the technology the less there is to go wrong!
Just need to find the cable for my camera to upload my pics to the computer so that I can take a heap of shots of the cutout.

Do you guys think a trip out there a day before just to assess the scenario is neccessary or would some photos from the home owner suffice? The only reason I ask is that the return trip is 70km.

Thanks

ML
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G3farms
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« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2009, 06:41:35 AM »

Most times I alway go and look first, biggest reason is to see what kind of attitude the home owner has, that can somtimes be a deciding factor on whether or not to take the job.

A ratchet strap to hold the new hive together to transport them back home and a six foot ladder.

G3
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see my swarms and cut outs at https://www.youtube.com/user/soapy22bullet?feature=mhee

those hot bees will have you steppin and a fetchin like your heads on fire and your @ss is a catchin!!!

Bees will be bees and do as they please!
iddee
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« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2009, 07:48:21 AM »

assess the layout, tools needed, bees, neighborhood, and owner, and owner. Did I mention owner?
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
treebee
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« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2009, 08:00:49 AM »

 I use a fein multimaster to get clean cuts on the gyprock,It's a little expensive but well worth the time savings, and now at most big lumber stores there are other brands Dremel and ryobi make cheaper models. I would take a good carpenters pencil and a level to make nice clean cuts as this will make repairs a lot easier on the home owner, and make you look like the professional in the mix. John H
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kathyp
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« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2009, 11:40:39 AM »

i use a box cutter and keep some extra blades in the truck.  

if you have time, skim through the tools for cutout section.   it's pretty common sense, but there might be something on there that you had not thought of.  we all tried to put in our "must have" ideas.  
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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lenape13
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« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2009, 11:50:47 AM »

Seems like everything is covered.  All I have to say is have fun and enjoy the experience.
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Meadlover
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« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2009, 07:29:39 PM »

Thanks again for all the help everyone, appreciate it greatly. Such seemingly tiny bits of information is going to save me alot of time and effort in the near future!

G3 and iddee - you guys were dead on with the advice of sussing out the owner.
I just called him to organise a time this arvo to check out the cut out and things have changed! angry
Apparantly he is happy to cut into the wall but his wife isn't. Also found out that the hive is behind the wall in the Master Bedroom, which I'm sure would cause problems the night of the removal with a whopping great hole in the wall!

He has suggested I have a look next week, and when he has time to do the repairs (after Christmas) that I should be able to cut it out then once he has the new gyprock on hand, and the time available to do the repair - so I guess if they can put up with it for that long, it might be a nice big strong hive by then! grin
I will also explain to him the process (as best I understand it) of doing a trap-out, but I won't be doing that for him since a trip there from work adds 70km to my day, and a round trip from home is around 150km (about 100 miles).

Anyhow the upside of this all is I have a manilla folder labelled "CUTOUT" with a list, some photos, and alot of comments from various threads here, so when I'm ready to do this one, or another one I will be much better prepared. I am also half way through building myself a beevac from an old vacuum cleaner, an old super and a microwave door - amazing how quickly a project can happen when you have the motivation and short time frame to complete it!

I guess this weekend I'll be finishing the beevac and making some swarm traps to put around the countyside.

Thanks again everyone, all of this info has sunk in and is just waiting to be used now.........

ML
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kathyp
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« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2009, 07:35:25 PM »

if you have the opportunity, you might want to start with an out building.  it's less intimidating to cut into a barn or shed wall, than into a bedroom  smiley

you take them where you find them, but something to keep in mind if you are going to put word out that you are doing cutouts.

don't forget the camera when you get to do one!  we like pictures.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
SlickMick
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« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2009, 07:50:11 PM »

Good luck with it ML

Mick
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On the outer Barcoo where the churches are few,
   And men of religion are scanty,
On a road never cross'd 'cept by folk that are lost,
   One Michael Magee had a shanty.

Now this Mike was the dad of a ten-year-old lad,
   Plump, healthy, and stoutly conditioned;
He was strong as the best, but poor Mike had no rest
   For the youngster had never been christened,
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Meadlover
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« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2009, 08:05:21 PM »

I was thinking the same thing Kathy, but as you say you have to take them where you get them, and this is the only one I've been given so far. Ideally my first would be outside, somewhere that no one cares how much stuff is cut or ripped out.

Thanks Slicko, and thanks for passing the call onto me too, lets hope it turns out to be productive in the near future.

I'm wondering how handy an old endoscope and stethoscope might be for cutouts? Might get a chance to find out one day soon.

ML
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John Lee Pettimore
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« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2009, 08:20:15 PM »

I'm wondering how handy an old endoscope and stethoscope might be for cutouts?

Maybe a portable x-ray machine? That way you could see where they are and irradiate them at the same time.
 cool
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G3farms
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« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2009, 09:48:41 PM »

I'm wondering how handy an old endoscope and stethoscope might be for cutouts?

you just might be surprised at what you will locate with it. even a flir camera or ir thermometer.

In the bed room huh, might want to take some plastic sheeting and duct tape to put on the floor. You could even build walls out of the plastic sheeting to help contain the bees in a certain area.

That sounds like some kind of bee vac.

haha bees in the bedroom, could make for an interesting night shocked shocked
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see my swarms and cut outs at https://www.youtube.com/user/soapy22bullet?feature=mhee

those hot bees will have you steppin and a fetchin like your heads on fire and your @ss is a catchin!!!

Bees will be bees and do as they please!
Meadlover
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Location: Gold Coast Hinterland, QLD, Australia


« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2009, 04:14:24 PM »

I'm wondering how handy an old endoscope and stethoscope might be for cutouts?

Maybe a portable x-ray machine? That way you could see where they are and irradiate them at the same time.
 cool


Hmmmm, intersting idea - I had a mate that used to have a briefcase size x-ray device......maybe that's going a bit far though.
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Meadlover
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« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2009, 04:20:57 PM »

I'm wondering how handy an old endoscope and stethoscope might be for cutouts?

you just might be surprised at what you will locate with it. even a flir camera or ir thermometer.

In the bed room huh, might want to take some plastic sheeting and duct tape to put on the floor. You could even build walls out of the plastic sheeting to help contain the bees in a certain area.

That sounds like some kind of bee vac.

haha bees in the bedroom, could make for an interesting night shocked shocked

Yeah good idea with the plastic G3. Considering it's in the master bedroom I guess it will either need to be fixed up or sealed off straight away. Sounds like the guy wants to have all the gear ready to go and fix it up straight away, but depending how long it takes me he might have to do it the next day.

The beevac should be an example of recycling - it has given a 2nd life to 5 things all given to me for nix:
an old super,
an old vacuum cleaner,
an old microwave door, and
some old leftover paint.

ML
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