Need Bees Removed?
International
Beekeeping Forums
July 31, 2014, 06:14:49 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: Beemaster's official FACEBOOK page
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar bee removal Login Register Chat  

Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Swarm signs  (Read 3429 times)
Lone
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 1053


Location: North Queensland


« on: November 29, 2009, 07:49:40 AM »

This question would be for Slicko and any other experts in swarming, though I can't imagine many outdoing Slicko in the swarming stakes.

What signs are there outside the hive that it is going to swarm?  How soon before it swarms can you see preparations? What sort of buzzing do they have?  Do you generally see drones a particular length of time before they swarm?

I am asking just in case in the future my hives ever recover enough to want to swarm.  There was a fair bit of flying around in front of one of the hives the other day, but I think the heat may have caused that.


Lone
Logged
Michael Bush
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 13588


Location: Nehawka, NE


WWW
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2009, 08:49:17 AM »

Any hot day a lot of bees will be hanging out.  Any warm afternoon in a booming hive a lot of bees will be hovering around the hive.  When they are actually swarming, of course, there are thousands of bees in the air, but not just next to the hive.  As far as predicting swarming, you have to listen and look in side.  A hive that is getting ready to swarm has a distinct sound.  Kind of a warble to the hum instead of a steady hum.  If you see a strong hive backfilling the brood nest (filling it in with nectar) during the swarming season (meaning not in the fall shutdown) that's a pretty good indicator they are headed that direction.
Logged

Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
David LaFerney
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 924


Location: Cookeville, TN - U.S.A.


WWW
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2009, 09:56:37 AM »

  If you see a strong hive backfilling the brood nest (filling it in with nectar) during the swarming season (meaning not in the fall shutdown) that's a pretty good indicator they are headed that direction.

Once you see that isn't it too late to head it off other than maybe by splitting up the hive?
Logged

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Samuel Clemens

Putting the "ape" in apiary since 2009.
Michael Bush
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 13588


Location: Nehawka, NE


WWW
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2009, 10:17:42 AM »

>Once you see that isn't it too late to head it off other than maybe by splitting up the hive?

Backfilling?  No.  You can open up the brood nest and often get them to give up at that point.  Swarm cells (with larvae in them, not just cups)?  Yes, it's too late, IMO to be worth the effort to try to stop them.
Logged

Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
JP
The Swarm King
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 11668


Location: Metairie, Louisiana

I like doing cut-outs, but I love catching swarms!


WWW
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2009, 10:57:16 AM »

I look at an abundance of drone brood as a good indicator of hives gearing to swarm.


...JP
Logged

"Good friends are as sweet as honey" Winne the Pooh

My pictures can be viewed at http://picasaweb.google.com/pyxicephalus
and
http://picasaweb.google.com/112138792165178452970

My Youtube videos can be viewed here: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=JPthebeeman&aq=f

My website JPthebeeman.com http://www.jpthebeeman.com/jpthebeeman/
annette
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 5311


Location: Placerville, California


« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2009, 12:09:13 PM »

I know Serge Labesque, a prominent beekeeping teacher around these parts, states that before they are getting ready to swarm, you will not see a whole lot of open brood, mostly sealed brood. Basically the queen has shut down.

Just a little bit of information along with all the other signs as noted by others.
Logged
SlickMick
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 590


Location: Brisbane, Australia


« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2009, 11:17:03 PM »

Hey Goodfora, I dont know how to predict em, I just know where they are gunna land grin

Slicko

But I am guessing that the Yeronga swarm might be getting ready to go again
Logged

On the outer Barcoo where the churches are few,
   And men of religion are scanty,
On a road never cross'd 'cept by folk that are lost,
   One Michael Magee had a shanty.

Now this Mike was the dad of a ten-year-old lad,
   Plump, healthy, and stoutly conditioned;
He was strong as the best, but poor Mike had no rest
   For the youngster had never been christened,
A BUSH CHRISTENING - A.B. "Banjo" Paterson http://www.middlemiss.org/lit/authors/patersonab/poetry/christen.html
mick
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1450


Location: s/e melbourne australia (-)37.50S 145.0E


« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2009, 01:55:09 AM »

All I know is they wont swarm if they have room. Remember bees dont sit on uncapped comb, they gotta go somewhere and its usually on the inside of the lid. If this is crammed full of bees, they need more room.
Logged
Lone
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 1053


Location: North Queensland


« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2009, 08:39:46 AM »

Thanks for all this information.  Now I have a new problem.  The two hives I requeened earlier this year, now in different locations, have very sparse patchy brood.  The hive next to one of them has about 5 frames full of brood.  Anyhow, in one of those weaker hives I saw a queen cell today.  It's not capped yet.  There is still no sign of a drone, although I know of a couple of wild hives in the area.  I can't see that this hive will swarm as the numbers are down.  What can happen with this young queen when she hatches?  Is this happening because the queen is not laying properly? Why are there no drones produced with a queen cell? 

Lone
Logged
philinacoma
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 438


Location: Coburg, Vic, Australia


« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2009, 09:03:02 AM »

Did you see any sign of the queen? Fresh brood, ie eggs or uncapped brood? From my understanding if the queen is gone or not laying well, then the workers may decide to replace her. (low pheromone output)

I do not believe they need to produce drones at the same time as once the new queen emerges, she flies off looking for some drones to party with. Once she's had her way with 4 or 5 of them, smoked her cigarettes, she wanders back home to spend the rest of her life having children.

Logged
JP
The Swarm King
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 11668


Location: Metairie, Louisiana

I like doing cut-outs, but I love catching swarms!


WWW
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2009, 09:44:45 AM »

Thanks for all this information.  Now I have a new problem.  The two hives I requeened earlier this year, now in different locations, have very sparse patchy brood.  The hive next to one of them has about 5 frames full of brood.  Anyhow, in one of those weaker hives I saw a queen cell today.  It's not capped yet.  There is still no sign of a drone, although I know of a couple of wild hives in the area.  I can't see that this hive will swarm as the numbers are down.  What can happen with this young queen when she hatches?  Is this happening because the queen is not laying properly? Why are there no drones produced with a queen cell? 

Lone

One or both of your patchy hives may have gone queenless. Check for a queen, eggs and young larvae and check their numbers. If no signs of a queen in either and low numbers, you may have to combine the two and give them a queen or the resources to make one.

As for as a virgin mating, if drones are available in your area, she should get mated.


...JP
Logged

"Good friends are as sweet as honey" Winne the Pooh

My pictures can be viewed at http://picasaweb.google.com/pyxicephalus
and
http://picasaweb.google.com/112138792165178452970

My Youtube videos can be viewed here: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=JPthebeeman&aq=f

My website JPthebeeman.com http://www.jpthebeeman.com/jpthebeeman/
Lone
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 1053


Location: North Queensland


« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2009, 05:25:46 PM »

I saw queens in both hives.  There were a few eggs too but not many.  I am thinking it is a combination of poor conditions here and poor queens.  I thought the queens would be a little young to be failing and superceded.  I was wondering if it is likely the bees kill the old queen, or the two fight it out?  My first concern was there would be a swarm and reduce numbers even more, but none of the signs mentioned above are there.  I suppose I will find out soon.  I'm hoping for supercedure to see if things improve.

There was a comment made by an experienced beek that queens have not been very good for the past couple of years, and often not properly mated, and to hang onto a good queen if you have one.  I don't know if that's true or not, but for now I'll hang onto to that stumpy looking queen with the mean bees and the five frames of brood.

I had an offer of taking a hive to town yesterday, where things are booming, and even the possum box on the hill has split the sides with all the bees.  So I'll take the other weak hive, the one without the queen cell, and if it doesn't rain too much I suppose I'll see if the patchy brood has been due to poor conditions.

Lone

Logged
mick
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1450


Location: s/e melbourne australia (-)37.50S 145.0E


« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2009, 03:27:21 AM »

Combine the bastards and do a spilt at the end of summer.
Logged
Michael Bush
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 13588


Location: Nehawka, NE


WWW
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2009, 02:16:00 PM »

>All I know is they wont swarm if they have room.

Yes.  They will.  Empty supers will only help, but they will not head off a reproductive swarm in the middle of prime swarm season.  For that you need room in the brood nest.
Logged

Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
buzzbee
Ken
Administrator
Galactic Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 5424


Location: North Central PA


WWW
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2009, 08:28:02 AM »

Here a couple pics of swarm in flight getting ready to settle,the hum is incredible. I heard one other swarm coming in from a distance later in the summer.
http://s93.photobucket.com/albums/l65/kwrabbit/First%20swarm%20of%202009/?action=view&current=IMG_8277.jpg
Logged
Geoff
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 572

Location: Yinnar, Australia


« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2009, 05:19:43 PM »

     There is something very musical about the sound of a large swarm, so long as it is not just out of one of your hives.
Logged

Local Area Network in Australia - the LAN down under.
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Beemaster's Beekeeping Ring
Previous | Home | Join | Random | Next
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.28 seconds with 22 queries.

Google visited last this page July 21, 2014, 09:10:30 PM
anything