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Author Topic: Pollen Patty Technique  (Read 4308 times)
Yappy
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« on: November 14, 2009, 10:37:40 PM »

So I am looking ahead to the arrival of my first 2 TBH 2# Packages  Smiley and read about the need the syrup feed and Pollen Patty feed.  How many 1# pollen @ 15% patties for starting new hives? What Technique is used to provide the Pollen Patty??  huh I saw pics of use in Std Hive on top of frames, however TBH is just empty box with top bars.  Also is placing the syrup inside hive in a swallow pan good or bad?
Still asking many questions, but this is the best site! grin
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alfred
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« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2009, 11:47:09 AM »

Your starting now, in November?
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Yappy
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« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2009, 12:27:36 PM »

I am looking ahead to the arrival of my first 2 TBH 2# Packages of Bees in April 2010.
Would it be better to "cage" the patty inside no.4 hardware hung from a top bar?
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alfred
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« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2009, 02:39:51 PM »

I can't really comment on THB's I haven't done one yet but I would be interested in what others say as I would like to do one next year. I would think that any way you got the patty in there would work just fine. With out any other guidance I would simply throw it on the floor of the hive for them to find. Why got to a whole lot of trouble...

Alfred
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bigbearomaha
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« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2009, 04:36:58 PM »

well,  I follow a 'live and let die' methodology. otherwise known as natural selection.

What type of foraging is immediately available for pollen sources around you?  If there are early pollen sources within the immediate area, that may well suffice.

Bees will spend any time it is warm enough to fly doing that.  They will forage and bring back what they can, while they can.  It is mid november in Nebraska now.  every time that tep gets to 55 ish,  I see some few bees flying while the warmth holds out.  Then back to the colony before it gets too cold in the evening again.

I say this because even though bees do  cluster in the winter, that doesn't mean they are unable to provide for themselves.  They are simply using their resources as a whole to maintain a survivable temperature.  If any bees can forage, they will. They will do it in the Spring as well.

 I am very selective about where I place bees and have turned down offers for space because  I did not feel they offered enough immediate foraging resources for just such situations.  but,  I can be picky as  I am not a commercial beekeeper and have to tend that number of bees.

think about planting some early spring  and late fall/early winter pollen/nectar producers in the immediate areas of your hives.  that can be a big help to them when they are taking advantage of warm breaks and taking short flights.

because when it warms up in the hive, they are consuming stores and will need to replenish when and however they can.


but, that's just my own two cent.  your mileage may vary.

Big Bear


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Yappy
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« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2009, 05:08:19 PM »

This is for a New TBH with no stores at all. will be adding a Package of Bees for the first time in April.
I have no other bees here.
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bigbearomaha
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« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2009, 05:12:18 PM »

 I don't know much about where you're at.

When does spring start up there?  When are the earliest blooms and above 50 degree weather?  If it is in late March to early april, there will be food for them around.

As to adding a pollen Patty, it's not something  I have done or intend to do. feeding is for the bees.  which is another reason i don't buy bees or pull honey until after they make it through the winter.

Big Bear
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kathyp
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« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2009, 05:37:56 PM »

sorry, i see your location. smiley

we have early pollen in the PNW.  you may not need to feed any.  i don't do TBH, but could you not lay the patty on a bit of screen right on the bars?  i would not put more than 1/2 a patty in at a time.  they tend to mold, and if the bees don't need them, they will skip the patty in favor of the stuff they can gather.

as for syrup, yes you will need to feed them.  we don't get enough nectar producing plants going until later in the spring and early summer.  in spring i use 1 gallon poultry waterers and put them 50 ft or so from the hives.  be sure to put rocks in the bowl or they will cram in and drown.  also glue some screen over the opening or they will go inside and die.  i learned that the hard way when i found the jar 1/2 full of dead bees.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2009, 06:22:03 PM »

Fireguy,
While it is almost always a good thing to wait for dandelion bloom before installing packages, I realize one must get them when they can. And it seems if one package provider is later than the next, someone will miss out getting a sale.  rolleyes

I made my first TBH with enough space above the bars and between the top, that I could place fondant or pollen patties. I made special screened bars, and some with just a 1 inch hole, for what I thought was ventilation and feed options, only to see the bees propolis everything shut.

I think there may not be a really "good" way for you to feed a pollen patty. Hanging it where they will be making comb may screw the comb up and anything not right next to the cluster may get ignored.

How about this....If you used the concept of a follower board and had a patty somehow "wedged" (or loosely strung in place) into it with some sort of edge (Like a shoe box lid turned on it's side), then you could slid it right up next to the first couple started combs. This would be seen as a wall and perhaps could inhibit the making of any additional comb as the bees eat it.

I'll give this some more thought....

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Yappy
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« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2009, 07:23:00 PM »


>How about this....If you used the concept of a follower board and had a patty somehow "wedged" (or loosely strung in place) into it with some sort of edge (Like a shoe box lid turned on it's side), then you could slid it right up next to the first couple started combs. This would be seen as a wall and perhaps could inhibit the making of any additional comb as the bees eat it.<
Would a plastic mesh/screen tacked over a patty on the follower board work??
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Yappy
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« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2009, 07:29:44 PM »

Kathy
>"in spring i use 1 gallon poultry waters and put them 50 ft or so from the hives. "< huh
I am not sure about "poultry waters" , how do you monitor bees intake and keep wasps away?
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Yappy
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« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2009, 07:40:27 PM »

> Big Bear," another reason i don't buy bees or pull honey until after they make it through the winter."
I expect to be required Order package bees in Jan for delivery sometime in April 2010. For local BC Mated Queens, If orders are not placed early some beeks may not find Any available at all until summer!
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annette
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« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2009, 07:59:05 PM »

I have started all my packages in April and never had to feed them pollen patties. Not sure if you really need to do this as they will probably be out flying and foraging right away.

But as said by others, you do need to feed them sugar syrup so they can get started drawing out the wax combs.

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bigbearomaha
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« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2009, 08:22:20 PM »

sounds like you've got an interesting time ahead of you.  anything  I mention will be regionalized to my area.  so, take it as you may.

Big Bear
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kathyp
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« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2009, 09:01:06 PM »

i don't monitor intake.  i monitor the weight of the hive.  if i were to find one light, i would feed it separately, but that doesn't seem to happen as long as i keep feed out.  wasps, etc. are not such a problem in the spring.  in the fall, it's another story.  i think with the TBH you'll have an easy time of looking in and seeing what your stores look like. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
rdy-b
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« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2009, 12:09:00 AM »

you could mix it into the sryup-and feed -or perhaps this will help  cheesy RDY-B
                                                                                                                                                                                  This is the joy of tbh's.  Combs of honey and pollen can be switched
from one hive to another very easily, but if sugar syrup is needed it's
easy to put feeder jars or baggies *inside* the hive.  I also use a
"feeder bar" made by attaching a U shaped channel of 1/2 inch hardware
cloth (sand screen) to a tb.  Candy, extender patties,or pollen substitute
patties can be placed in the channel of the U.
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Robo
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« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2009, 02:16:26 PM »

So I am looking ahead to the arrival of my first 2 TBH 2# Packages  Smiley and read about the need the syrup feed and Pollen Patty feed.  How many 1# pollen @ 15% patties for starting new hives?  Also is placing the syrup inside hive in a swallow pan good or bad?

 
I wouldn't worry about feeding pollen patty,  there will most likely be natural pollen available and they will just ignore the patty.

For a feeder, you can build a follower board feeder that can be monitored and filled without opening the hive.
http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,21940.msg168645.html#msg168645
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mtbe
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« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2009, 11:19:02 PM »

I just installed 2 TBHs last April.  I'm near Chicago

I did put in pollen pattys.  I don't remember the weight of each.

The patties came with paper on both sides.  I left the paper on and cut slits on one side to give them access.  I placed/leaned the pollen patty against the follower/back board with the uncut side next to the board. This worked fine, and they removed a lot of the paper.  You can do this before you drop the bees in.

In addition, use the baggie method to feed the syrup.  This worked great too.  But, put the bees in first, wait a day, maybe two, then you can place the baggie on the bottom.  I placed the baggie in first, then dropped the bees in, and the syrup went everywhere.
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Yappy
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« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2009, 05:54:37 PM »

Thank you all for your comments I really appreciate this site. grin
So in summary because of my location, on the rainy wet coast of BC Canada, and because my BeeS will arrive early April and rainy April is are normal weather.
 I feel I must have the Pallen paddies available just in case the bee's cannot get their own food.
 I decided to build a feeder behind a follower board to feed sugar syrup.
 I will make a cage to hold half a Pollen Paddy and Sugar-Candy, hanging from a Topbar.
... Rob
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« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2009, 12:14:24 PM »

I built both of my top bar hives with 3/8" spacers between 1" bars. That gives me the option of supering them or putting a 2" frame over a portion of the hive and putting patties up there. It also gives you the option of setting up a top feeder for syrup or candy boards in the winter if necessary.
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« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2009, 03:08:02 PM »

I generally don't feed patties.  I open feed some pollen.  When I DID feed patties to the TTBH, it has, as Bjorn's does also, a 3/8" gap between the top of the top bars and the cover.  I just made a 1/4" gap between two bars in the center of the cluster and laid the patty on top of that.  They consumed it about the same as any other hive did.
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