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Author Topic: Procedure for queen rearing  (Read 2306 times)
Dvash
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« on: November 10, 2009, 01:55:37 PM »

I would like to try queen rearing and have written up my plan. Can someone please comment on it and let me know if I am doing something totally wrong.

I have a site with 4 nucs and a single deep. I would like to try and rear some queens.

Can I do the following and get good results:

1.   Remove one or two frames (with the queen) from my strong 10 frame deep hive. and put her in a nuc.

2.   Wait 24 hours and then graft larvae from one of the nucs with my best queen.

3.   Insert the cell bar , with my grafted queen cups, into the 10 frame deep.

4.   Wait 24-48 hours and then remove the cell bar.

5.   Return the frame or two with the queen and place a queen excluder and a super over the hive.

6.   Put the cell frame bar into the super (with the started cells).

7.   Add four frames (one from each of the four nucs) to the super.

8.   Leave for about 10 days, then remove each queen cell and attach them to the sides of frames that I pull from different hives.

9.   Take each frame with attached bees and queen cell, together with another frame with drawn comb and place with an inner feeder into a five-cell nuc.
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RayMarler
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« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2009, 07:56:05 PM »

Yep, sounds like a good plan to me.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2009, 08:37:17 PM »

>1.   Remove one or two frames (with the queen) from my strong 10 frame deep hive. and put her in a nuc.

I assume this is one or the other of, the queen you want to be the mother and/or the hive you want to use for the starter?

>2.   Wait 24 hours and then graft larvae from one of the nucs with my best queen.

So the best queen is in one of the nucs?

>3.   Insert the cell bar , with my grafted queen cups, into the 10 frame deep.

The queenless one, I presume?

>4.   Wait 24-48 hours and then remove the cell bar.

I wouldn't remove it.  I'd leave it.

>5.   Return the frame or two with the queen and place a queen excluder and a super over the hive.

>6.   Put the cell frame bar into the super (with the started cells).

The problem with this arrangement is that the super will not attract nurse bees.  I want the cells in the middle of open brood which will attract nurse bees or have no open brood in the hive and these cells are the only brood to attract the nurse bees.  I'm afraid they will get torn down.  They may not, but that is a risk.  I'd rather leave the queen in the nuc until the cells are at least capped and then maybe put them in the box above the queen separated by an excluder, or just leave the queen in the nuc until I'm ready to divvy out the queen cells.


>7.   Add four frames (one from each of the four nucs) to the super.

What was the point of putting them into the nucs?

>8.   Leave for about 10 days, then remove each queen cell and attach them to the sides of frames that I pull from different hives.

Be sure this is 10 days from when you grafted.  I'm not clear what 10 days this is.

>9.   Take each frame with attached bees and queen cell, together with another frame with drawn comb and place with an inner feeder into a five-cell nuc.

I would give a frame of brood and a frame of honey to each mating nuc.  The feeder is optional, but in a dearth is helpful.

Here's my ideas:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesqueenrearing.htm

And simple ways to get a few good queens without grafting:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesafewgoodqueens.htm
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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
Dvash
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« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2009, 09:20:56 AM »

Michael,

Do you recommend just grafting the 1 day larva and inserting them into a busy hive with a queen in the hive and then removing them after 10 days?

Won't they tear down the cells?
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David LaFerney
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« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2009, 09:53:28 AM »

You should really read the articles in Michael Bush's links.  They are interesting, informative, have a few pictures and will answer all of your questions.
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"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Samuel Clemens

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Michael Bush
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« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2009, 10:16:10 AM »

>Do you recommend just grafting the 1 day larva and inserting them into a busy hive with a queen in the hive and then removing them after 10 days?

No.  I'd put them in a queenless hive (the queen can be in a nuc with a frame of brood and a frame of honey or more)

>Won't they tear down the cells?

Assuming the queenright hive, maybe.  It depends on several things.  The quality of the queen, the crowdedness of the the hive.  The stage of swarm prep they may or may not be in etc.

I haven't had the best luck with queenright starters or finishers.
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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
Dvash
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« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2009, 12:59:48 PM »

OK, so how about this:

Remove the queen and brood from a busy hive. Leave pollen, honey and adult bees. (Put the queen in a queen cage with some attendant bees and the brood into another hive that has room for it.)

Put the grafted queen cups in the busy hive.

Leave it there for 1-3 days.

Take the future queens out and place them in a queenright hive above an excluder between frames of open brood. (I don't have any two level hives so I would need to borrow some frames to create this). Return the queen to the hive introducing her via her cage.

Leave until day 10 from the graft.

Remove queen cells and insert them in nucs with a frame of honey and a frame of brood.

Wait for them to mate and check for eggs a week after they hatch.

OR,

Should I just borrow frames from other hives in the yard and create  a two level brood box and use a Cloake Board?

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Michael Bush
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« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2009, 02:10:26 PM »

>Remove the queen and brood from a busy hive. Leave pollen, honey and adult bees. (Put the queen in a queen cage with some attendant bees and the brood into another hive that has room for it.)

I would put her in a nuc with a frame of brood and a frame of honey.  A queen in a cage in a queenright hive often gets killed.

>Put the grafted queen cups in the busy hive.

The now queenless hive?

>Leave it there for 1-3 days.

I'd leave it until they are capped at minimum, which will take four to five days.

>Take the future queens out and place them in a queenright hive above an excluder between frames of open brood. (I don't have any two level hives so I would need to borrow some frames to create this). Return the queen to the hive introducing her via her cage.

It would be less abiguous to call them cells until they emerge and become queens, but this can work, if they are capped when you do it and the hive is crowded and the cells are a box away from where the queen is confined.  In other words if the queen is in the bottom box and the cells and some open brood are in the third box up, then this works pretty well.  If not, it might work, but becomes more iffy.

>Leave until day 10 from the graft.

Correct.

>Remove queen cells and insert them in nucs with a frame of honey and a frame of brood.

Good plan.

>Wait for them to mate and check for eggs a week after they hatch.

I'd wait two weeks.  Few will be laying in one and they need to lay for a week or so before they are very well developed.

>Should I just borrow frames from other hives in the yard and create  a two level brood box and use a Cloake Board?

That is another option.  Personally I like just using a strong hive made queenless as it already has a good population of bees.  I like to crowd it down (remove any empty supers or empty boxes and maybe even a super if it's really tall) and just leave the cells there for ten days and then put them in mating nucs and then either put the queen back or leave her in a nuc to build that nuc up and leave a cell in the cell starter/finisher.
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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
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