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Author Topic: Why not 8 frame deeps?  (Read 1544 times)
mswartfager
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« on: November 11, 2009, 09:08:53 PM »

I seem to read and hear lots of recommendations to avoid deeps and go for mediums.  Since it seems to me that deeps are so common and because I started my hives with 10 frame deep boxes with shallow 10 frame supers a couple years ago, wouldn't it make sense (at least in my situation) to keep the deep frames and reduce to 8 frame boxes and get the same effect as using mediums? 

I've got a lot of deep frames that are new or almost new, but would like to reduce the weight I have to deal with in each box by going from 10 frames to 8 frames.

Thanks again for your input.
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David LaFerney
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« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2009, 10:17:03 PM »

Why not?  8 is going to be 20 percent lighter than 10 no matter what size the frames are. There is at least one advantage to using deeps - your brood frames will be the same as most bee keepers so you wont have an issue if you ever want to buy or sell nucs or help out a friend with a frame or two of brood.
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doak
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« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2009, 10:26:21 PM »

My idea of using 8 frame medium honey supers is to lighten the weight that I have to work with.
For brood chambers you could go with 8 or 10 frame mediums. the same with honey supers.
You don't have to handle the brood boxes as much as the honey supers. Plus the deeps with brood and what honey they have stored for their use in rearing brood weighs about half what a deep of honey weighs.
The smaller size of the 8 frame boxes handle easier for me be cause I am not a giant.
Unless you won't to call 5'8" and 165 lbs with small frame a giant. rolleyes
8 frame deep full of honey will be about (70 lbs.) 20 lbs less than the 10 frame 90 lb. box.
So your trade off for weight will not be great. :)doak
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RayMarler
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« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2009, 10:42:10 PM »

I run all 8 frame deeps. I think the queen might prefer deeps to mediums. I'm considering changing to using a single 8 frame deep on the bottom with 8 frame mediums on top of it. The queen would stay lower in the stack it seems to me, but I'm just guessing mostly. I very seldom would need to inpect all the way to bottom deep, as if hive activity seems good then no need I think. She would of course use more than just the single deep from mid spring thru early fall for brood. I would over winter them in a single 8 frame deep with a medium on top I suppose.

I'm also thinking of making 19 1/4 deep frames to use in double stacked 8 frame deeps as the bottom broodnest, would give the bees solid combs with no breaks for the broodnest. I would use all mediums on top of that. I bet the queen would very seldom if ever go up into the supers above this way. Similar to what Dadant was using in a way, sizing is different tho. That way, If I suspected problems, I could lift up the double deep sized frames for inspection if I felt I needed to.
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alfred
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« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2009, 11:11:07 PM »

The main reason that I went to all mediums was not because of the weight factor, although it is a nice side benifit. I went to all mediums because of the interchangeability of the frames and boxes. Now I can move anything anywhere in the hives I want whenever I want. Also I only have to make one size box and one size frame.

Alfred
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RayMarler
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« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2009, 04:09:19 AM »

Yes Alfred, that's why I've got all 8 frame deeps now, and why I've still not changed even though I think about it.  rolleyes
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2009, 08:52:31 AM »

Eight frame deeps work fine for the bees.  It limits interchangeability unless you use all deeps, and it still weighs 70 pounds or so per box when full of honey.  But that 70 pounds is a little easier to lift as it's closer to your body.  I love the eight frame mediums for those two things you won't get--48 pound boxes and interchangeability.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslazy.htm#uniformframesize
 
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alfred
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« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2009, 09:24:28 AM »

I see you are using all deeps even as supers. Well that gets you the interchangability, but when they are stacked up and full of honey i'll bet that that is a job moving them around. you get the same interchangeability with all mediums and they are lighter.

I understand about how much work it waould be to switch things. I have thought of going with 8framers but then I would have to make all new boxes or cut the old ones down. What a pain in the... It was'nt very hard to cut down my deeps to mediums but switching to 8framers would be more work. I think that in retrospect I would start off with 8framers. Certainly I would not now suggest deeps to anyone.

Alfred
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kathyp
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« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2009, 10:10:14 AM »

i have deeps for brood.  got lots of them in some bulk buys, so not practical to skip them.  when i need to move them and they are really heavy with honey, i just pull some frames first.  when they don't have a lot of honey in them, they are not heavy. 
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« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2009, 05:25:07 PM »

I am ready to make some boxes now. I have all mediums so far with 8 hives. I need some NUC boxes also. Am having the toughest time deciding what to do but I am leaning toward staying with all mediumd though perhaps it would be better if I made deeps for some NUCs. I have also been moving toward all foundationless and have made some beveled top bars. Last season the bees drew them out nicely. It would be easy to just make them into one size and that would best be the medium I feel. Perhaps I will need to convert the 4 NUCs I have coming in the Spring to mediums. So much to think about.
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tonyp
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« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2009, 09:56:17 PM »

Ray Marler or anyone else, when running all 8 frame deeps will the queen lay higher up than the bottom two boxes?
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RayMarler
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« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2009, 11:09:07 PM »

TonyP

Yes, depends on the queen and the nectar flows.
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mick
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« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2009, 01:28:05 AM »

I use 8 frame full depths, 75 kilo boxes are good, but heavy! Ive had queens laying up to the 4th box by choice, dont know why.
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alfred
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« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2009, 08:33:34 AM »

I don't think that having deeps makes any difference to the queens. Mine are all mediums and I get brood all the way to the top of the stack sometimes. The queen goes were she will and doesn't seem to know medium from deep.

Alfred
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