Need Bees Removed?
International
Beekeeping Forums
September 21, 2014, 11:08:34 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: Beemaster's official FACEBOOK page
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar bee removal Login Register Chat  

Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: marking off the time, no matter how we did it along the way.  (Read 1263 times)
bigbearomaha
Guest
« on: November 10, 2009, 10:31:22 PM »

I guess you can call this a rant.

I was recently speaking to someone who has been a beekeeper for the last 30 some odd years.   I know it was over 30 years because he made a point to keep telling me at several points during our discussion as though it were a punctuation mark to his statements.
 
First off,  I can appreciate anyone who puts the time in over the course of their life to doing something they believe in doing.  I can respect that , if you know what  I mean.

I have worked in a few various jobs and positions, quite varied during my still young but storied career thus far.   I have had the opportunity to work with true 'craftsman' who put every ounce of themselves into doing a job and doing it the way it should be done.  One was a carpenter who was an instructor when  I worked and took classes in carpentry.  This old fella was a HUGE PITA taskmaster.  BUT, by the time you were done learning things his way, you knew how to handle wood.  No doubt about it.

 I have worked with others like him in other places and I always leave thankful I knew those folks and glad they spent the time doing what they did.

On the flip hand,  I have known folks who have also spent the last 20 to 30 years doing something   and doing it  not so good during that time.  One was a 'counselor' at the same place I was working for the YMCA.  by the end, he decided he had to push 'seniority' on me because I didn't do things the way he always wanted me to do them, yet my record speaks for itself,  Iwas very successful at what I did.  He on the other hand, well, not so much.

He decided to tell me that regardless of my success,  I should be doing things the way he did because he had been doing this for over 20 years you know. That's just the way it's done.  ( Mr 20 years was eventually replaced, btw)

The whole reason  I write this down is to say I have met people who have spent many years doing what they did, some of them obviously did a very good job at it,  and others, despite how long they spent doing it, were really not all that good at it.

Why is this relevant?   I don't put a lot of stock into the "time in" argument.  Not so much.

The more people try to tell me something MUST be done a certain way because that's how it's been done for the last ( fill in the blank) years,  I hear little alarms go off.

This beekeeper the other night, well, he set off the alarms because he insisted that top bar hives were just plain "wrong" and, well, he had other colorful things to say about it as well.

so, Just on a general note, when someone wants to make a case on something being "right" or "best" based on the "that's how it's been done for..." argument,  Idon't work well with that.   itend to let the persons body of work speak for itself rather than how long he or she has been working at it.

Regardless of how much I can appreciate the amount of time over  the years someone has spent doing something,  I respect far more the intent, commitment and willingness to keep learning.

it's very very true that sometimes, the old ways are the best.  But not always, and each person sometimes needs to discover that for themselves.  Sometimes personal experience is the better teacher. 

Personal experience brings with it discipline, a sense of humility and a sense of pride that you "did it".  Sometimes that is better than anything a book or a lecture can give you.

Combine learning from others AND personal experience, and you have one prepared person.

 I want to personally thank you long time beekeepers who hang out here and share your experience and knowledge with new folks.  I also want to thank you for stepping back and letting others walk their own path when it was time for that to happen as well.

Big Bear


Logged
Michael Bush
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 13663


Location: Nehawka, NE


WWW
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2009, 08:49:13 AM »

I'm always amazed how critical people can be of something they have no experience with, like top bar hives or foundationless etc.
Logged

Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
jdpro5010
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 290


Location: Leetonia, Ohio


« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2009, 11:02:52 AM »

People always have been and continue to be afraid of change. 
Logged
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 15152


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2009, 12:20:48 PM »

innovation comes from those with an idea, and the courage to try try it.  also the sense to abandon or adjust an idea when what you are doing does not work.   evil
« Last Edit: November 11, 2009, 12:49:13 PM by kathyp » Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
lenape13
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 612


Location: Belle Vernon, PA

We survive together, or not at all!


« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2009, 01:56:40 PM »

Many people are intolerant or afraid of change.  We should always be willing to move forward and try new things.  If they don't work, or you don't feel comfortable with the results, you can always revert back to the old ways.  I, for example, being Lenape, follow the old ways in most things, but I also live in a modern house with a computer and the internet.  Change is not always bad.
Logged
Grid
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 140

Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada


« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2009, 02:45:14 PM »

There is a famous behavioral experiment done with monkeys.

The setup is a bunch of bananas hanging above a step-ladder.  If any monkey climbs the ladder, ALL the monkeys get hosed down with a fire hose.  Pretty soon, any monkey trying to go up the ladder, the others beat him up and stop him.

The fire-hose treatments stop.  The "old-timer" monkeys get replaced one at a time.  The new monkeys get beat up and learn not to climb the ladder, and to beat up any new monkeys that do.  After a time, there are no monkeys left who know why they should not climb the ladder, or why they are beating up any one who does.  Still, they all keep beating up and stopping any new monkey that tries to climb the ladder.

"That's just the way it's always been done".

Grid.
Logged
luvin honey
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 1540

Location: Central WI


« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2009, 11:34:20 PM »

I notice this in many different areas, too. I think it's a slap in the face to people when you choose to do something "off the beaten path." They seem to take it personally. I guess, in a way, choosing to do something different than them could be taken as an unspoken criticism of *their* way. Still, it's too bad when people instantly criticize without even getting more information.

I have topbars, too, and have been pleasantly surprised by the interest and curiosity of anybody I have told them about, including long-term and shorter-term beekeepers.

Fascinating study on the monkeys! Shows how "just the way it has always been done" mentality gets passed from generation to generation until nobody even stops to think anymore *why* it is done that way.
Logged

The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson
Scadsobees
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3198


Location: Jenison, MI

Best use of smileys in a post award.


« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2009, 08:54:28 AM »

I don't get all bent out of shape with these people, I just nod and smile (smugly to myself) knowing that the way that I do it is obviously better and then quietly go about my business.

 rolleyes
Logged

Rick
Michael Bush
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 13663


Location: Nehawka, NE


WWW
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2009, 08:56:51 AM »

The old story I heard was a man sees his wife making a roast and she cuts a small piece off the end and puts it in a separate pan and puts them both in the oven.  He asks why she did that and she  says she doesn't know, it's how her mom always did it.  So he wants her to ask her mom.  She calls her mom and her mom says she doesn't know that's how grandma always did it.  So they call grandma and she says her roasting pan was never big enough and they didn't have the money for  a new one so she always did that because it wouldn't fit.
Logged

Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
Grid
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 140

Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada


« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2009, 01:19:03 PM »

Hehe!  I like that one.  Thanks Michael (Mike?).  I'm going to add that story to my collection.  Smiley

Grid.
Logged
cow pollinater
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 53

Location: Exeter, CA


« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2009, 06:35:44 PM »

My next door nieghbor ran a thousand hives for quite some time.  He had problems keeping bees alive before any of the problems we have today came around. He was forced out of the business by a staggaring death loss around thirty years ago and yet he still feels compelled to tell me how to manage my bees. shocked  Luckily enough (for me and my bees anyway) he has drank himself nearly senile/insane and so all I have to do is sugest that last time we talked he thought I should______ and all of a sudden he's all for it! grin 
That being said, God Bless my bees... they're about the only thing that the old fart gets excited enough about to tolerate human interaction.
Logged

If it doesn't kill you it makes you stronger... Or maims you for life.
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Beemaster's Beekeeping Ring
Previous | Home | Join | Random | Next
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.137 seconds with 22 queries.

Google visited last this page September 07, 2014, 08:47:19 PM
anything