Need Bees Removed?
International
Beekeeping Forums
November 26, 2014, 04:13:52 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: 24/7 Ventrilo Voice chat -click for instructions and free software here
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar bee removal Login Register Chat  

Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Essential Oils instead of chemicals?  (Read 4259 times)
weBEE Jammin
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 134

Location: Oklahoma


« on: October 29, 2009, 07:23:05 PM »

I am trying my best to not use chemicals on or around my ladies. I have been experimenting and using essential oils to fight against mites, beetles, wax moths, nozema, etc. Does anyone out there have any good recipes for bees using non chemical materials? I use them in sugar water, pollen sub, coasters, powder and pastes. All suggestions using non chemicals would be greatly appreciated.
Logged
iddee
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6210

Location: Randleman, NC


« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2009, 09:11:48 PM »

What is a chemical?Huh  I thought sugar water was a chemical.Essential oils, also. Tell me where I am wrong.
Logged

"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
Scadsobees
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3198


Location: Jenison, MI

Best use of smileys in a post award.


« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2009, 09:44:19 PM »

Um I think you know what he means....now I'm off to drink my chemical...er...I mean my diet Pepsi. grin
Logged

Rick
David LaFerney
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 924


Location: Cookeville, TN - U.S.A.


WWW
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2009, 11:18:46 PM »

I tried a solution of 4 parts mineral oil to one part thyme essential oil (which should have resulted in about a 3.5% thymol solution) soaked into a pad of paper towels layed on the top bars.  The bees chewed up the paper towels and carried them down through the hive and out over several weeks.  It didn't knock down the varroa, and I did an oxalic acid treatment about a week ago.  It might have worked better if I had done it while the temps were still hot, and I might try it again next year if needed. 

Thymol is supposed to be effective against varroa and tracheal mites, but I must say that it leaves a very strong and long lasting scent in the hives.  Since bees rely so much on pheromones to regulate behavior I wouldn't be surprised if essential oils like this have some negative effects.  I guess every approach has a down side.

I would rather avoid all treatments if possible, but I was to the point where that approach was probably going to result in nothing but dead bees.  When I have more hives I might be more willing to go the hard line survival of the fittest route.
Logged

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Samuel Clemens

Putting the "ape" in apiary since 2009.
BoBn
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 195

Location: USA


WWW
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2009, 06:00:32 AM »

I think that you have to very careful with the dosage.  I was reading about some of Bob Noel's work with essential oils.  He had a maximum  dosage for wintergreen oil and said that the bees will ball the queen if too much was used.
http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/varroa/varroa2.htm
Logged

"Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one-half the world fools and the other half hypocrites."
--Thomas Jefferson
David LaFerney
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 924


Location: Cookeville, TN - U.S.A.


WWW
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2009, 09:06:44 AM »

BoBN - that's a very interesting article thanks for the link.  I wonder if there is anything similar that has been done since this one - 1996.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2009, 09:17:33 AM by David LaFerney » Logged

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Samuel Clemens

Putting the "ape" in apiary since 2009.
Finski
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3928

Location: Finland


« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2009, 01:58:53 PM »

 I wonder if there is anything similar that has been done since this one - 1996.

essential oils are "organic chemicals" = carbon chemistry is the pet name.

Surely, and much more better. After that date European Union varroa group was founded and it researched all sensible varroa control methods. Italian professor Nanetti developed Oxalic Acid trickling method.

Basic control methods are now thymol, formic acid and oxalic acid. There are 20 more recommended and much more what authorities does not recommend.

"Essential oils" is fíne name, but have nothing special inside.  You may split the stuff to "inorganic chemicals" and "organic chemicals". The latter has carbon atoms.

When you want best knowledge about varroa, put into google "nanetti varroa 2009".

If you want about essential oils, write  "nanetti varroa essential oils 2009".

Logged

.
Language barrier NOT included
gaucho10
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 335


Location: Spencer, MA


WWW
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2009, 04:46:03 PM »

I'm am not sure but I think wintergreen is highly toxic to humans.   Ok, I lied.  It is. grin
Logged

My favorite comedy program used to be Glenn Beck--The only thing is that after I heard the same joke over and over again it became BOOOORING.....

People who have inspired me throughout my life---Pee-wee Herman, Adolph Hitler, George W. Bush, Glenn Beck.
Notice I did not say they were people who I admire !!!
gaucho10
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 335


Location: Spencer, MA


WWW
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2009, 04:52:06 PM »

I used to use essential oils two years ago when I wanted to go "Organic"!  I know that when reading the recipes for making essential oil mixes there was lots of warnings about wearing gloves and being careful with how much you put in.  Just my thoughts.  That was a mistake!   It did not appear to help much with "Organic" beekeeping.  I still had the same amount of mites.  Unless I inhaled some of that wintergreen and I don't remember rolleyes
Logged

My favorite comedy program used to be Glenn Beck--The only thing is that after I heard the same joke over and over again it became BOOOORING.....

People who have inspired me throughout my life---Pee-wee Herman, Adolph Hitler, George W. Bush, Glenn Beck.
Notice I did not say they were people who I admire !!!
Finski
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3928

Location: Finland


« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2009, 06:42:55 PM »

.
Wintergreen oil has another name methyl salicylate.

I looked from google and during 10 years it has been done researches on parasitic cattle mites.

No mentionings with honey bee varroa.

Year 2006:
Abstract The tick Boophilus microplus is the principal species of ectoparasite that impairs dairy cattle productivity in Brazil. Its control is mainly by using synthetic chemical products during its parasitic phase. The purpose of this study is to evaluate the acaricide activity of four products of natural origin. Depending on solubility, tests were conducted with solutions in distilled water or emulsified in aqueous DMSO at 1% of the following products: thymol, menthol, methyl salicylate, and salicylic acid. Each of these was tested at three concentrations ............
« Last Edit: October 30, 2009, 06:56:44 PM by Finski » Logged

.
Language barrier NOT included
Finski
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3928

Location: Finland


« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2009, 06:44:32 PM »

I'm am not sure but I think wintergreen is highly toxic to humans.   Ok, I lied.  It is. grin


Yes, it seems to be
Canada 1940:   http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC538133/pdf/canmedaj00221-0064.pdf

"The following cases of methyl salicylate
poisoning are being reported to bring again to
the fore the potentially fatal properties of the
drug."
Logged

.
Language barrier NOT included
gaucho10
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 335


Location: Spencer, MA


WWW
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2009, 07:14:09 PM »

Wow Finski....I never really followed up on the wintergreen information previously but your post is interesting.  Too bad that the two situations discussed involved young children.  I wonder what the outcome would have been with adults?  I do have to admit that I only read about two pages of that report at which time I had to give up due to the terminology.  I never did make it into medical school and I can never understand the writing on my doctor's prescription...unless my medication includes Merlot or Cavernet. evil
Logged

My favorite comedy program used to be Glenn Beck--The only thing is that after I heard the same joke over and over again it became BOOOORING.....

People who have inspired me throughout my life---Pee-wee Herman, Adolph Hitler, George W. Bush, Glenn Beck.
Notice I did not say they were people who I admire !!!
Finski
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3928

Location: Finland


« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2009, 02:03:13 AM »

.
Here is good reading about varroa  http://www.coagandalucia.com/extras/sectores/api/nanetti_cordoba_integrated_varroa_treatment.pdf

The recent advances in the
integrated control of varroosis
Antonio Nanetti 2007

Nanetti wirites:
Natural active ingredients
 Compounds of essential oils
 .......Thymol
 Organic acids
 ........Oxalic
 .........Formic
 .........Lactic (obsolete

We have those organic acids in our body or in daily human food.

.
Logged

.
Language barrier NOT included
Finski
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3928

Location: Finland


« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2009, 02:17:02 AM »

.
Organic chemicals in varroa control  2003
http://www.rsc.org/delivery/_ArticleLinking/DisplayArticleForFree.cfm?doi=b301510f&JournalCode=PO

Klaus Wallner1 from Universität Hohenheim in Stuttgart, Germany and Ingemar Fries2 from the Swedish
University of Agricultural Sciences in Uppsala, Sweden discuss the control of V. destructor in honey bee
colonies by management methods and organic and traditional methods of chemical control

A range of chemicals that occur naturally in the honey bee
colony environment and that are present in honey can
be used to control V. destructor. The most commonly
used so-called organic acaricides are formic, lactic and
oxalic acids. It is believed that the acaricidial effect is based
directly on a lowered pH which is less well tolerated by the
smaller mite than the larger bee. Thymol, a substance found
in high quantities in some types of honey, is also widely
used.

Formic acid has been the most commonly used organic
acid for varroa mite control. There are numerous ways of
applying formic acid to control varroa. An advantage with
formic acid is that there is also some miticidal effect on
mites in sealed brood (Fries, 1991). Disadvantages include
variation in efficacy and risks for the user handling concentrated
acid. Formic acid fumigation is best used in the
temperature range 12–25°C. Below this temperature the
efficacy is reduced and above this temperature the bees may
become agitated and leave the hive.
Lactic acid is applied in a 15% water solution sprayed
directly on each comb side covered with bees. The treatment
is very effective if repeated three times and well tolerated by
the bees (Brødsgaard et al., 1997). However, it is very labour
intensive.
Oxalic acid has more recently proved to be highly
effective for mite control, both applied dissolved in sugar
solution dripped onto the bees  or as a fumigant applied
after heating oxalic acid crystals inside the bee hive

Oxalic acid is only effective in broodless
colonies and if applied in the late autumn problems with
increased residues in honey are minimal.

Logged

.
Language barrier NOT included
weBEE Jammin
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 134

Location: Oklahoma


« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2009, 11:28:29 AM »

Thank you everyone for all the info so far.  It seams like everything we give our bees, that they do not get for themselves, has some type of warnings on them!  Do you think any of these are contributing to the CCD? Even the food and nectar has been contaminated by herbacides and insecticides. We cannot control the environment around us!! Thank you again for your time and knowledge.
Logged
Finski
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3928

Location: Finland


« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2009, 01:36:25 PM »

 It seams like everything we give our bees, that they do not get for themselves, has some type of warnings on them!  .


There is no harmless stuff if you want to kill mites.

However, oxalic acid is the most naturall stuff. Honey has so much oxalic acid that trickling mays cause 10% rise on content, but no more.

When we give 3% oxalic acid to bees, most vegetables have 0,5% content.
Carrot has quite much.


http://growingtaste.com/oxalicacid.shtml
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=14942975
Logged

.
Language barrier NOT included
Joelel
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 578


Location: Dallas,Texas


« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2009, 02:42:46 PM »

I'm going to try garlic,it's suppost to repell all kind of critters. Just add it to water and use an entrance feeder or other to water them year round or as much as possable. Get it in the bees system and the queen work it into the eggs and though the hive. It might repell everything if the bees can handle it in their body.
Logged

Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation
Finski
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3928

Location: Finland


« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2009, 03:40:33 PM »

.
Here is more stuff to try

http://scialert.net/fulltext/?doi=je.2009.135.144

 BUT 80% reduction is not enough to save the colony.
Logged

.
Language barrier NOT included
weBEE Jammin
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 134

Location: Oklahoma


« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2009, 09:42:29 PM »

Thank you Finski, that was a great site with all their studies; and thank you for all the info you have given me and all that read this.  I have been adding clove and garlic in moderation, with my pollen sub for the bees. I have learned you can overdose your bees on anything, you just have to learn moderation. Everyone has their own ways of doing things, they just should not be critical of others for being different. As I always say, bees will do what they want to do when they want to do it.
Logged
Finski
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3928

Location: Finland


« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2009, 12:49:43 AM »

. Everyone has their own ways of doing things,

I would say that " Everyone has their own ways of killing hives" when we talk about varroa.

Lets look carlic. No one recommend carlic against varroa.  It kills 80% of mites.  At the end of brood season you have 1000 mites and 200 will be alive.  Every month they double.

If frood are from March to September you will have in autumn 13 000 mites and a dying hive..

 month 3   ....4....   5....   6....   7....   8....   9....
mites 200   400   800   1600   3200   6400   12800

500 mites in the hive is a bad limit

Oxalic acid is the most natural stuff in the beehive, at least more than carlic.

.
.
Logged

.
Language barrier NOT included
Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Beemaster's Beekeeping Ring
Previous | Home | Join | Random | Next
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 2.324 seconds with 21 queries.

Google visited last this page October 31, 2014, 05:19:45 PM
anything