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Author Topic: Need help from a Philadelphia Beekeeper  (Read 4634 times)
Joelel
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« Reply #40 on: November 03, 2009, 04:01:34 PM »

Scadsobees I don't understand how what I'm asking for is confusing.

I'd imagine most people who are beekeeping advocates are beekeepers too, and I'd imagine that ALL beekeepers are beekeeping advocates.

There is an architect interested in the project in Philly.  I am wondering if there are Philly beekeepers who would be interested in helping him with a roof design that could include a hive, and once the project is complete to actually put a colony on the roof to try out the concept.

Its a two fold thing.  I can convince designers and building owners that its green and feasible, but on the other hand I would love to see these pioneers to get LEED credits for their contribution to the beekeeping community which I'd think I'd be preaching to the choir if I said that I think they should!

Joelel, the problem with your line of thinking is that even if they DID become Africanized it doesn't get rid of the need of a pollinator.  If you are so concerned maybe you should destroy your colonies and help the greater good of preventing Africanization.  You won't...why?  Because its an issue we will have to learn to adapt to.  It can't be stopped, so its a non issue.

Your line of thinking seems to take an approach that will eventually lead to beekeeping being illegal in the US.

Do you think honey bees are the only thing that pollinates ? By the way,I intend to keep African bees out breed. That's what we need all bee keepers to focus on,not pollinating flowers in the cities.
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Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation
TheMasonicHive
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« Reply #41 on: November 03, 2009, 04:19:22 PM »

Joelel,


Who said anything about this being the focus of beekeepers?  Its almost like you have something against the idea of someone working a hive in the inner city.

How does my proposed idea work at all against the idea of pollinating crops in rural areas?  Keep your bees there!  Migrate them!  Stress them!  Do what you will!

As for me, I'll focus on something being overlooked.
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Christopher Peace
Oakland County, MI

"It teaches us that, as we come into the world rational and intelligent beings, so we should ever be industrious ones; never sitting down contented while our fellow-creatures around us are in want, when it is in our power to relieve them without inconvenience to ourselves." - Freemasonry on the Beehive
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« Reply #42 on: November 03, 2009, 06:06:52 PM »


Africanized bees are spreading across the country and they breed with all other bees. They attack things making noise, like people on lawn mowers. I don't think Cities will take the chance on getting billions of these bees in their city. They kill enough people out side the cities and hurt people real bad.

http://www.sdnhm.org/research/entomology/ahb.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africanized_bee

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apis_mellifera_scutellata

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/LyraEDISServlet?command=getImageDetail&image_soid=FIGURE%201&document_soid=IN790&document_version=45452

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/IN790

http://www.doacs.state.fl.us/pi/plantinsp/apiary/africanbees.html




[/quote]

Do you have any real numbers on actual Africanized bees that have killed people in this country? People that have had an allergic reaction to a bee sting don't count.

  I think incorporating bees into a green rooftop would be a great idea.There are a lot of people in the inner cities that manage to gather large quantities of honey. Many times it is a better habitat for the beees with many water resources and a lot of irrigated gardening you may not find in a dry spell outside the city.
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Joelel
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« Reply #43 on: November 03, 2009, 10:20:13 PM »

Joelel,


Who said anything about this being the focus of beekeepers?

 NOT ME,NOT YOU,NOT ANYONE.I SAID>By the way,I intend to keep African bees out breed. That's what we need all bee keepers to focus on,not pollinating flowers in the cities.

Its almost like you have something against the idea of someone working a hive in the inner city.

Your the one who brought up pollination. I just pointed out honey bees are not the only pollinators.We don't need them in the city for pollination or anything else. To try to get billions of bees in a city for any reason is  fishhit.In Houston they call bee people every year several times to remove bees out of their houses.


How does my proposed idea work at all against the idea of pollinating crops in rural areas?

I NEVER SAID IT DID.

 Keep your bees there!  Migrate them!  Stress them!  Do what you will!

You need to read the links i posted on Africanized bees.

As for me, I'll focus on something being overlooked.

I don't think you do if you ignor the danger of Africanized bees.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2009, 11:12:24 PM by Joelel » Logged

Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation
Joelel
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« Reply #44 on: November 03, 2009, 10:46:36 PM »


Africanized bees are spreading across the country and they breed with all other bees. They attack things making noise, like people on lawn mowers. I don't think Cities will take the chance on getting billions of these bees in their city. They kill enough people out side the cities and hurt people real bad.

http://www.sdnhm.org/research/entomology/ahb.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africanized_bee

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apis_mellifera_scutellata

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/LyraEDISServlet?command=getImageDetail&image_soid=FIGURE%201&document_soid=IN790&document_version=45452

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/IN790

http://www.doacs.state.fl.us/pi/plantinsp/apiary/africanbees.html






Do you have any real numbers on actual Africanized bees that have killed people in this country? People that have had an allergic reaction to a bee sting don't count.

  I think incorporating bees into a green rooftop would be a great idea.There are a lot of people in the inner cities that manage to gather large quantities of honey. Many times it is a better habitat for the beees with many water resources and a lot of irrigated gardening you may not find in a dry spell outside the city.
[/quote]

Rather people die because of allergic reaction or not,we don't need these billions of Africanized bees flying around our cities increasing the chance of people being stung,as we don't need them in the country. Fact is,we will never get rid of them but we can do our best to keep the out breed as much as possable. People who keep bees hanging around for green or honey sure are not going to want to worry about if their bees get Africanized or not. They need to know the danger. If you want to go green,put a load of dirt and plant grass on your roof.

This person said this about his county,While it is true that Africanized honey bees are highly defensive insects, the threat they pose to human populations has been exaggerated. Approximately 40 people die in this country each year as a result of stinging insects. To avoid trouble with bees and wasps, here are some safety suggestions:


http://www.sdnhm.org/research/entomology/ahb.html
« Last Edit: November 03, 2009, 10:56:39 PM by Joelel » Logged

Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation
Scadsobees
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« Reply #45 on: November 03, 2009, 11:37:07 PM »

Well, if the african bees are still spreading so fast, we'd be much better with domesticated and controlled bees in our cities rather than letting the africanized ones loose.  Sorry, but that threat, while still a threat, is way overblown.

So I think that would be the least of concerns.

I'd be much more concerned with swarming.  And the bees are in swarming in the city without beehives around, I think it would be an advantage to get a beeks in the city and at least then they know somebody nearby will help when a swarm shows up.
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Rick
Joelel
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« Reply #46 on: November 04, 2009, 12:13:47 PM »

Well, if the african bees are still spreading so fast, we'd be much better with domesticated and controlled bees in our cities rather than letting the africanized ones loose.  Sorry, but that threat, while still a threat, is way overblown.

So I think that would be the least of concerns.

I'd be much more concerned with swarming.  And the bees are in swarming in the city without beehives around, I think it would be an advantage to get a beeks in the city and at least then they know somebody nearby will help when a swarm shows up.

#1) You don't keep bees from getting Africanized, most will not know when they do until they try to collect honey and get attacked,then they have to re-queen.
#2) You don't keep them from swarming,so now we have Africanized bees in cracks of houses and buildings all over the city,that can NOT be controlled. This green bee stuff will do nothing but cause big problems for cities. It's tons of work working bees to start with,then you have to control the breed besides and chase bees all over the city and catch them,tear peoples homes and buildings apart to get the hives,I don't think so. Anyone who would approve bees in the city fell off a turnip truck.
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Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation
TheMasonicHive
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« Reply #47 on: November 04, 2009, 01:35:07 PM »

Joelel,

Answer me very clearly here.  How is beekeeping in a rural setting not just as risky as for an urban setting when it comes to Africanized bees?

Heck, when a hive is 20 floors above where pedestrians are I'd say that they have a lower likelihood of coming across a hive that's Africanized.

You can't make this about apocoloyptic worst case scenario.  What if they Africanize?  Sure, it could happen, but that same argument won't stop you from keeping them in rural settings.
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Christopher Peace
Oakland County, MI

"It teaches us that, as we come into the world rational and intelligent beings, so we should ever be industrious ones; never sitting down contented while our fellow-creatures around us are in want, when it is in our power to relieve them without inconvenience to ourselves." - Freemasonry on the Beehive
Joelel
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« Reply #48 on: November 04, 2009, 02:30:51 PM »

Joelel,

Answer me very clearly here.  How is beekeeping in a rural setting not just as risky as for an urban setting when it comes to Africanized bees?

Because of Africanized bees,beekeeping is not an easy thing. It use to be we could just raise bees and take care of them and sell honey. Now if we get a mean Africanized hive we must out breed them. Any good bee keeper will do this,anyone who sells queens and packages will do this if they care. Yes they are risky in the urban setting. In the city we will be dealing with this problem on a much bigger scale,millions of people and millions of bees that can not be controlled. They will swarm and that can not be controlled. We have a mean hive now and in the spring it will be split into 5 nucs and re-queened with 5 new queens.

Heck, when a hive is 20 floors above where pedestrians are I'd say that they have a lower likelihood of coming across a hive that's Africanized.

Bees fly everywhere,not just around the hive. If a person walks into the middle of where they are collecting pollen and nectar and disturb them,they have been known to attack.Africanized bees are aggressive and attack sounds,there are all kind of noises in cities that are not in the country.

You can't make this about apocoloyptic worst case scenario.  What if they Africanize?  Sure, it could happen, but that same argument won't stop you from keeping them in rural settings.

Not if they Africanize,they will,they are everywhere in the south and are moving north into states where it freezes two or three months a year. In the south,in the rural settings many of us deal with it and re-queen but starting back in the 80s when this started,many bee keepers quit and still do. As they move feather north more will quit.Many bee keepers who sell queens and packages have moved north to avoid them for a few yrs.


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Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation
kathyp
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« Reply #49 on: November 04, 2009, 02:46:36 PM »

joelel, many people keep bees in urban settings.  new york city has roof top beekeepers.  google it.  i can think of no good reason to discourage people from keeping bees in any setting that works including urban/city settings.

rather than telling people they are nuts for wanting to try a thing, we should be encouraging people to keep bees, educate the public, and enjoy the hobby.  not everyone can live in a rural setting, but beekeeping is something that can be done almost anywhere.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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« Reply #50 on: November 04, 2009, 04:45:32 PM »

Actually I think you'll find that, as africaniszed bees move farther north their genetics will become more and more diluted due to breeding with more docile breeds. The more docile bees we keep, the better chances we have. I say forget worrying about 'em and raise more bees!

Scott
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"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

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« Reply #51 on: November 04, 2009, 06:48:42 PM »

It is in the nature of some to be contrarians. As we all look for the good it causes us to ponder more deeply as to just what our position is. I still encourage this endeavor.
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Joelel
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« Reply #52 on: November 04, 2009, 07:31:42 PM »

Hay if you want to flood our cities with bees,be my guest.This is my last post on the subject. I wouldn't flood our cities with bees that were not Africianzed.Cities is no place to keep bees.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2009, 08:45:22 PM by Joelel » Logged

Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation
kathyp
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« Reply #53 on: November 04, 2009, 07:36:13 PM »


Quote
Cities is no place for bees
i'll remember to mention that to the bees next time i get called to pick up a swarm in town.  i guess they have not heard.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Joelel
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« Reply #54 on: November 04, 2009, 07:44:22 PM »

 fishhit is a bliss
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Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation
Jack
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« Reply #55 on: November 04, 2009, 07:46:37 PM »

keep doing what we do. ignore the naysayers.
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Scadsobees
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« Reply #56 on: November 04, 2009, 10:34:47 PM »

If african bees are such a concern in cities, then they only belong on very rural farms away from people.  And we have to exterminate all swarms and feral hives.

And a hobby would die, only to be run by experts. I wouldn't be a beekeeper without hives in my suburban backyard.

Sorry. I don't buy that. 

In fact, while a hive or two may get hot, at least a beekeeper can control it by replacing the queen, to some extent.  Can't do that in a wild hive, which there are plenty of in the cities (I get enough calls!!).

While I have some minor reservations about this endeavor, africanization is pretty low on that concern list for me.  But you can be concerned if you like, it is a free country after all!  butt kick  banana devil
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Rick
ziffabeek
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« Reply #57 on: November 05, 2009, 12:44:42 PM »

Well, at least now when all you country folk start going on about the, ah, "differences" of city folk, we have some ammunition to fight back with! Smiley

And, yes Kathy, I have seen the light.

I keep a hive in the city and they are happy and healthy and the gentlest bees you can find.  I imagine that if they ever become africanized I would manage them the same way a "country" beekeeper would, just like I manage for SHB and swarms and mites the same way they do. . . Managing a hive is managing a hive regardless of where it is located.


"While it is true that Africanized honey bees are highly defensive insects, the threat they pose to human populations has been exaggerated. "

"There are now relatively stable geographic zones in which either Africanized bees dominate, a mix of Africanized and European bees is present, or only non-Africanized bees are found (as in southern South America or northern North America)."

From material already posted in this thread, and found elsewhere on the net, Africanized bees, while a beekeeping issue, are already becoming normalized and lessening as a threat.  As long as beekeepers manage responsibly, in the country or the city, they are an issue that can be minimized and controled to the same extent as other beekeeping problems.

I think hives on top of a building are a great idea, as long as someone is responsible for them.  Whether the building management sets up a relationship with a beekeeper or with a resident of the building, or a coop, or a neighbor, who knows.  The finances could certainly be negotiated between the interested parties.  Keep up the good work and good luck!


edit:  I obviously don't know how to use the quote thing yet! Smiley  Maybe I did just fall off the turnip truck . . . lol
« Last Edit: November 06, 2009, 09:18:40 AM by ziffabeek » Logged
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