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Author Topic: Mystery Photos - Please Identify  (Read 2163 times)
fiveson
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Location: ASHBURN VA (N VA. JUST OUTSIDE DC)


« on: April 15, 2005, 09:52:08 PM »

My bees didnt make it over the winter. I am pretty sure they froze. I found the following two situations. One looks like something ate through the cells and wax.

The other is a swarm cell (supercedure?)?

Please tell me what I am looking at - and what the correct course of action should be now.

Thanks






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(J Joyce)
burny
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Location: woodstock,vermont,u.s.a.


« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2005, 06:14:46 AM »

your right




start over cry
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Robo
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« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2005, 06:30:51 AM »

The first one appears to be a frame of mostly pollen with some capped honey that now has wax moth damage.  I would scrap off the wax moth damaged area and give it back to the bees.

The second does not look like a swarm or supercedure cell, it just seems to be some wierd drawn comb.  You could scrap that off it you wanted or just give it back to them the way it is.  There appears to be some white in some of the cells (like right about the dead bee).  If this is just moldy pollen (which would be my bet) there is no problem giving it back to the bees, they will clean it right up.  If it is dead brood,  then you might want to test for foulbrood.  Not trying to scare you or over-react,  it is just hard to see from the photo.

Good luck....
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Robo
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« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2005, 06:36:08 AM »

Quote from: fiveson
I am pretty sure they froze.


Highly unlikely this was the primary cause.  Something else cause a reduction in population that prevented them from keeping warm.   A healthy hive should not starve/freeze if they still have sufficient stores.

Did you treat for varroa AND tracheal mites?  Did you inspect the bottom board for dead varroa mites?  Unless you determine the root cause of your hives demise, there is a good chance you will continue down the same path this year.
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fiveson
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Location: ASHBURN VA (N VA. JUST OUTSIDE DC)


« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2005, 07:29:35 PM »

First off thanks for responding.

I had a good winter colony going in and then they just stopped being. We had a hellacious ice cold wind storm for about two days (I mean sub zero) and they didnt have enough wind break. It literally looked like Pompei - everyone just in place.

As to foul brood. Everything I have read says there is an upleasant odor associated with it - the hive still smelled sweet.

I appreciate the advice about scraping and sending it back in - thats exactly what I will do.

NO I DID NOT treat for tracheal mites or Varoa the proper way - I was trying natural oils and just grease patties. This year will be very different!

Last question - will they uncap what they dont need and use that space for brood or will anything thats already capped be ignored and thus they will have less space?

Thanks everyone. This is my second season - and while I got great honey last year - this year I want to keep everyone alive.
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The Pleasures Of Love Lasts but a fleeting
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JoshK
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Location: Lorain County, OH


« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2005, 10:39:47 PM »

To the best of my limited knowledge, the bees won't clear out capped honey until they plan on using it, with one special exception that doesn't apply here.  But anyway: don't worry so much about the tracheal mites; if it's a question of either/or, treat for Varroa first - I recommend Sucrocide.  If your state's program is good, give some sample bees to your county inspector and ask him to have them tested for the presence of tracheal mites (this is done for free in Ohio, I don't know about your state) before you drop the copper on a treatment.

It doesn't look anything like foulbrood, so I wouldn't actively worry about that.  Please don't use Terramycin.  

And lastly - it may be too late (perhaps you've done it already), but I wouldn't put any of those frames in another one of my colonies.  At the moment we really have no idea why that colony died - giving their honey to another colony might be spreading something bad.  Like others, I don't want to freak you out or cause you to overreact - but as long as there is the possibility of disease, you might be killing another hive.  I'd wait until I had a tighter handle on what exactly took down that colony.
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fiveson
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Location: ASHBURN VA (N VA. JUST OUTSIDE DC)


« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2005, 11:00:38 PM »

I didnt think it was foulbrood - no smell at all.

I really think the bees froze. We had a wicked windstorm for two days. I really dont know though.

Its too late. I have already mixed all the frames with the new and last hive. If they die - I know.

I wont use Terramycin. The suggestion re varroa and the state is a good one - ill check.

Thanks for taking the time.

Rob
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The Pleasures Of Love Lasts but a fleeting
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(J Joyce)
pardee
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« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2005, 09:05:06 AM »

I would have to agree with Robo. First and for certain COLD WEATHER DOSE NOT KILL HONEYBEES! Any beekeeper in the north can tell you that, here in Michigan the weather can drop below zero for days or weeks at a time and it surly stays below freezing for week and sometimes a month at a time with very little sun. there is also a thriving beekeeping industry in Canada and they would snicker at the thought that the weather in the D. C. Area was cold enough to freeze your bees out. The most likely cause was tracheal mites, there effect is usually noticed in mid or late winter. They cause the average life span of a honeybee to be shortened to the point the hive will drop below a critical mass to survive. And let me tell you that will be a small number. Last January one hive had a cluster about the size of a softball and they are large enough to split now. IPM is the key a strong hive keeps a lot of undesirables out of your hive.
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fiveson
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« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2005, 11:21:57 AM »

Is IPM internal Pest Management?

Duly noted on the freezing issue. The only reason I thought that was because I found lots of bees just sort of frozen where they died. Some were in a cluster, others just standing like they stopped mid action - and lots others with teir heads burried in the cells.

I do feel that I didnt medicate properly for tracheal mites. I relied only on grease patties.

Be patient with my flailing for answers as it was my first season and I was trying to do the whole thing without benefit of 'chemicals' (im over that now!)

Rob
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The Pleasures Of Love Lasts but a fleeting
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(J Joyce)
pardee
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Location: Southwest Michigan


« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2005, 01:05:16 PM »

IPM stands for Integrated Pest Management. In other words there is no silver bullet, as was described by the state apiary inspector of Michigan you need to rotate any chemical treatments to keep all the unwanted out of your hives. Screen bottom boards are a good passive tool that has more uses than just keeping Varroa out. It’s a good device to aid in ventilation and you can use it to keep track of your Varroa load. You will need to treat your hives with menthol crystal to get rid of Tracheal mites, it’s very effective because it dehydrates the vermin so as far as I know they have not been able to develop and immunity. Slatted racks are another passive piece of equipment I us them in all of my hives this also aids in ventilation gives the bees a nice lobby and is used to control swarming. The healthier you can keep the environment the better they can deal with all the things that want a piece of them, like wax moths. A hive dying out is called the winter dwindle with a shortened life span thanks to mite attack not enough make it thru the winter. Here in Michigan I pull the last of my honey by the first week of September start treatment for varroa and tracheal mites medicate for foulbrood , and nosema and crowd them down later in October to encourage them to pack it away for the long winter. So far my winter losses have been below 10%. This year I will use Sucrocide after I pull my first supers in mid June to knock down the varroa load and if I can find someone to ship Mite-Away II a formic acid pad I will treat this fall with it. The Canadians have been using formic acid for over twenty years without resistance. Also try one of the resistant breeds of honeybee like Russian or what I am switching over to New World Carniolan I started two hives last year and I am amazed with them. I will switch over entirely to them.
   As far as grease patties, small hive beetles love them and they only encourage there reproduction, since I discovered them in one hive I have quiet using them. So far they have not been a problem for me they have a weak spot they must leave the hive and pupate in the ground around the hive so if you treat the area around the hive with Gardstar it seems to keep them in check with an added benefit of controlling ants.
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Finsky
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« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2005, 01:24:19 PM »

As long as bees has sugar or honey in their hive, they do not die for cold.
Last week we had in Eastern Finland frost and sow and one night it was -9C (15F).

All my hives destroyed their larvas because they cannot get drinking water for 5 days.  But no one will die if they have food there.

You had something else problem in your hive. Did hive had brood?
All hives raise some brood before spring. You had alot of pollen. Only those, which does not have pollen, cannot feed their larvas.

But hive can die for cold, if teh winter ball is small and it drifts to the corner where is no food.
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