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Author Topic: Chalk Brood in October?  (Read 4577 times)
Hemlock
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« on: October 19, 2009, 07:31:48 PM »

Of my 2 hives the least productive, yet more populated, hive is showing Chalk brood.  Each hive already has a ventilated cover.  I hope by adding a screened bottom board the Chalk brood will go away.

Any suggestions...
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Cindi
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« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2009, 11:16:40 PM »

Hemlock, I see no replies.  What happened?  Did the chalkbrood clear up?  It is usually associated with damp, cool weather, and usually clears on its own.  Would like to know.  Have that wonderful day, health.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
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« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2009, 12:26:18 AM »

@ Cindi,

Sorry about that.  I get lost in all the questions I have here. 

Anyway, Cool & damp is all we have here anymore.  The weak hive with the CB still has mummies on the screen floor.  So I don't know if she done with it yet.  I think she'll have it for a while as green mold is setting in the hive cover.  How I can have 2 hives I treat identically yet have different results drives me bats.   I'd very much like to re-Queen come Spring but I've read Fall is a better time.  I just don't think The weak hive can last.

Thanks
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mudlakee
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« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2009, 07:49:05 PM »

Ck with Purvis Bros for Queens. Good Luck   Tony
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Hemlock
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« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2009, 08:27:45 PM »

@ mudlakee,

Thanks for the tip.  I've not heard of this outfit before and will check them out.  I appreciate it. 
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annette
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« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2009, 11:37:55 PM »

If there is green mold on the inner cover, then you still have a ventilation problem. What is this  ventilated cover you are using??
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Hemlock
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« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2009, 12:09:59 AM »

@ annette,

Here is the vent cover I made for my hives in use: 3.5 inches tall.  9, 1-1/4 inch holes.  I guess it's more of a super than a cover though.  I remember seeing something similar to it on-line but can't remember where.



Plus the hive has a screened bottom board.  Yet the mold came back.  The ventilation seemed to go well.  No bearding this summer and hive populations were good.

Could this be caused by OLD wax or supper?  The one deep is ancient.  It's the only equipment leftover from the farmer I got all this from.  Everything else has been burned. So maybe the old wax or wooden ware have spores or just hold the moisture in?  Hence the CB.

...And here is the green mold (Image from last year.  Same hive, same mold.  Not the Old super)


« Last Edit: November 08, 2009, 12:56:41 AM by Hemlock » Logged
AR Beekeeper
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« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2009, 06:06:27 AM »

Looks like mildew to me, wash the box with a bleach solution and you will kill it.  If your chalk brood doesn't clear up it may help to replace the combs.   
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annette
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« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2009, 12:17:23 PM »

That ventilated super is wonderful you have made.  I bought the same covers from Honey Run Apiaries,and since using them I have not experienced any mildew (which I had tons of the first year beekeeping) and no bearding in the summer.

Well I guess it is not a ventilation problem.  Just do what AR Beekeeper has suggested and get rid of the mold.
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Scadsobees
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« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2009, 01:24:59 PM »

While chalkbrood can be made worse with wet weather, if it persists, then you need a new queen, it is often a queen issue.  So if it is a strong hive, I'd plan on requeening asap in the spring.  I had a similar situation, CB during the summer, next spring I requeened and it cleared up.

As far as the mold...there's moldable material that gets on the boxes (propolis, wax, honey) and that will mold.  Not a big deal.  That super, while it may not be new, doesn't show sign of a lot of use, so the bees probably haven't been in there polishing and propolizing and doing what they do when they are crowded up in there, so it gets a little moisture but not a good bee-cleaning.

Mold doesn't cause chalkbrood, although chalkbrood is a type of fungus.  Both can be made worse by moisture, but both are controlled by strong hives, good queens. 

Rick
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Rick
kathyp
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« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2009, 01:43:09 PM »

not much you can do about it in the winter.  good ventilation seems to help some.  some have success with requeening.  another thing i read about and tried this year was keeping the temp up in the hive.  no upper entrance.  reduced lower entrance.  open screened bottom board.  crowding bees. 

i tried this with a small hive this  year.  had a fast clear up of the chalkbrood.  can not prove that the elevated hive temp did it, but it might be worth a try.

there is a risk of swarming with this method because you leave them very little extra space.  you might want to put out a swarm trap.

make sure the hive is worth saving before you get crazy trying to fix it.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Hemlock
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« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2009, 08:37:53 PM »

@ AR Beekeeper,
Bleach is how I cleaned the mess last year & how I'll clean it up this year.  Nasty stuff bleach.  I hope to keep out of the hives but I keep letting the mold in, darn it.   Thank you.

@ annette,
Yes, Honey Run Apiaries is where I saw this contraption at.  I knew it was somewhere but could not remember where.  I think theirs incorporates a inner cover too.  Good idea.  Thank you.

@ Scadsobees,
I'm planing on Re-Queening in Spring.  The members in the club talk about northern stock queens.  It helps with Winter hardiness.  I reckon I should place that order.  I looked under the hood tonight (Alright the screened bottom board).  The amount of CB laying there is near the same as last week.  No piles on the porch or ground either, unlike several weeks ago.  So it may be that the CB is gone or going away.  For now.
About the mold, you're right!  Now that I think about it all the wooden ware with mold on it is newer.  Especially since I've never seen it on the older equipment.  I believe you solved the Mold mystery.  Which leads me to this.  I just hot-waxed the inside of the telescoping cover (current location of the mold).  Oh yeah I bleached it first.  Thanks a ton.

@ kathyp,
To keep the temp up I could wrap the hive in tar paper I guess.  I've thought about it but no decision yet.  I want to stay away from over crowding.  I've already seen some queen cups (2) and lost all my queens last year to swarms.  Too little experience just yet.  Plus all that my swarm trap caught last year was cockroaches.
I do think the hive is worth saving since I only have 2 of them.  The ventilation has been fixed from last year; no condensation this Winter.  The mold/equipment thing is now understood & fixed.  The population is good but not great.  They have OK reserves & with only 2 hives to manage I can easily feed then all they can take.  And I'll re-Queen in Spring.  Thank you so much.

And the best thing of all is all the great people here in this forum who willingly answer my questions.  It seems that any fix to a problem is never far away. Thank you to all who help out us newbies.



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RayMarler
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« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2009, 11:48:39 PM »

Are you feeding syrup?
I have a hive, saw chalk brood starting. Stopped feeding syrup and switched to dry white granulated sugar in a division board feeder. The chalk brood has cleared up and the bees are getting stronger. I have two story 8 frame deeps with 3/4 hole drilled in center front board of upper box, bottom entrance on open sbb, so plenty of ventilation was in this hive. I counted it as a sign to stop feeding syrup took away all syrup from all hives. This was in middle October. All the hives appear to be doing well from external observations. Each hive now has a division board feeder of dry white sugar in the top box against one side. I figure on looking for a clear day end of this month and might add on top a mountain camp, have not made up my mind yet. I may do it on half of the hives and leave the rest. I think they'll all have plenty of stores to make it thru end of January so I'll more than likely just leave them all alone and take a peek inside the top covers around the end of January.
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Hemlock
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« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2009, 12:18:07 AM »

@ RayMarler,

Yes, I'm feeding them 2:1 syrup.  However, they (the CB hive) took only 2.5 gallons since mid October.  Whereas my other hive took 4 gallons during the same time and did not have CB.  I have not refilled the feeders in over a week and the sugar has near completely crystallized.  I do plan to refill this week because I want to medicate with Fumagilin.
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kathyp
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« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2009, 12:22:03 AM »

you should probably stop feeding them.  you don't need that added moisture in the hive.  why are you going to use fumagilin?  do you have a a problem to treat?
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Cindi
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« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2009, 10:38:16 AM »

Hmmm, fragments of my memory.  Seems to me I recall Finsky talking about chalkbrood and its relation to feeding syrup, not clear, but I recall something like that.....beautiful days, to love and live, to hold in our hands, with health.  Cindi
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There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold.  The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold.  The Northern Lights have seen queer sights, but the queerest they ever did see, what the night on the marge of Lake Lebarge, I cremated Sam McGee.  Robert Service
Hemlock
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« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2009, 12:07:36 PM »

@ KathyP & Cindi
It is starting to sound like the CB is related to the syrup feeding.  Yet, one hive (weak) is showing CB while the other hive (strong) is not.  So perhaps the presence of added moisture (syrup) in a weak hive can lead to CB.  By strong & weak I mean the Queen productivity & population numbers.  Though the weak hive is, well, weak it is better than it was at this time last year; and she made it through last winter.  I'm working to have her come out of this winter far stronger than before.  Hence the application of Fumagilin for Nosema.  This comes as a recommendation posted at 'George Imirie's Pink Pages'.  The bees had a whopper of a case of Nosema last Spring so I'm trying to head that off now.  We have some warm days coming up that they may take it down quickly enough.

Thanks
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kathyp
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« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2009, 12:15:03 PM »

your hive is probably weak because of the chalkbrood.  if it's bad enough, it will reduce your numbers.  if you are adding moisture, you are probably making it worse.  switch to dry sugar.  if they survive the winter, try requeening and cleaning equipment.  

sometimes the chalkbrood is so bad that the hive is not worth saving.  you will know more in the spring.

nosema (or what people assume in the spring is nosema) is usually self limiting.  personally, i would not treat for it.  it is not uncommon for them to make a mess on the first warm days of spring, but it last only a couple of days and clears up.  feeding helps.  
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Hemlock
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« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2009, 04:38:40 PM »

@ kathyp,
Yes in Spring the bees hold it in until fly days then all dash out at once it seems.  I may truly may not be able to tell the difference between Nosema & cleansing fights.  But now I feel as though I'm torn between 2 solutions that are at odds with each other.  Either feed syrup to fight Nosema & risk CB, Or, Stop feeding syrup to quell CB & risk Nosema.

NUTS!
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kathyp
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« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2009, 05:16:36 PM »

you  have an immediate problem and a potential problem.  you will have to decide which is most important.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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