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Author Topic: Raising Africanized Bees?  (Read 10646 times)
Joelel
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« Reply #60 on: November 16, 2009, 03:19:02 AM »

I don't think anyone is saying not to care about africanized bees, however, significant progress has been made in central and south america that shows over reacting is unwarranted.  Africanized bees can be worked with and even 'calmed down' with appropriate measures.

By all means, be educated, informed and be prepared.

Big Bear

Who's over reacting ? When you got some jerk in the city with a hive and it gets africanized and they kill the people next door or down the road. Then they turn around and say,OH,you can't prove where the bees come from. I guarantee if you got a hive ,everyone in the neighborhood knows it. I would also bet they can do DNA test and tell what hive they came from. See also,when some jerk has a hive and says,you can't prove where they came from and all they care about is being happy and not even carring if someone is killed or badly hurt.
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Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation
Joelel
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« Reply #61 on: November 16, 2009, 03:28:24 AM »

Quote
I think this will be along the line of what I'm trying to get people to get a grip on.

You cannot be serious.

If you had read even a little bit of the works of Warwick Kerr, the biologist from who the original bees escaped, you have to have read the findings  I mentioned earlier that these bees do not get 'more' aggressive' as they approach cooler climates, but less aggressive.

According to most studies, africanized honey bees maintain predominantly african traits in tropical and subtropical climes.  If there is adaptation as they approach cooler climes, they adapt to the european bee genetics becoming more dominant and those of the african receding.

It appears you are more interested in hyperbole than actual facts.

Big Bear

So,did you watch the program on TV about all the trouble they have in Tucson,Arizona ?
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Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation
Jack
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« Reply #62 on: November 16, 2009, 07:07:26 AM »

Tucson. Arizona. Gee, I think the climate is rather hot there for the most part. This gut just won't quit. I think head strong would be the word. As stated before we have our own problems up in the northern climates and AHB is not one nor does it look like they will be migrating our way.
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bigbearomaha
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« Reply #63 on: November 16, 2009, 08:19:14 AM »

Joelel, have you heard about the campers who got mauled on a guys property by Grizzly Bears in Colorado?  He doesn't raise Grizzlies, nor are all Grizzlies man eaters.   Does that mean because they were on this guys property the remaining family will sue the guy, even though they were not 'his' bears.

Of course not.

Believe it or not, there were scores more situations than you refer to in Central and South America than we will EVER see here.  However, guess which few and far between stories will show up in the media first?

Yep, your nightmare stories.

If a person is an alert beekeeper and is in an area to have the aggressiveness being displayed, I imagine they should notice it before such nightmare comes to fruition.  And by golly, all it takes is re-queening to put them back in order.  Imagine that.  Disaster Averted.

While the pop media primarily focus on ratings getting sensationalist news, it is up to us responsible beekeepers to pay attention to the actual research and ongoing studies being done just about everywhere africanized bees are.

We can't afford to become the alarmists in the community.  it's our place to be prepared and come to the community's aid when they need it.

Panicking will not help that.

Big Bear
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Joelel
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« Reply #64 on: November 16, 2009, 05:10:43 PM »

Let's say,In the spring your queen dies and you don't know it.Then the hive builds a new queen and she crosses with a africanized drone. The queen always takes on the African drones aggressiveness.So from the time the queen dies you have all africanized bees in about 3 month. The africanized bees looks like an Italian bee and you can't tell the difference. The African bee has a high swarm rate,so lets say they swarm a month after they have all africanized bees to your neighbors house. He decides to mow his yard and they attack him and kill him because they attack noises. All in about 4 months,that would be about in July and you don't even know you got africanized bees,and don't even collect your honey until Aug. You do a spring check of your hive and one in two months after they have a new queen but not many of her bees are africanized yet,then after collecting the honey an other check. You don't even know their mean africanized bees until you collect the honey in Aug. and they attack you.
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Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation
bigbearomaha
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« Reply #65 on: November 16, 2009, 05:27:19 PM »

Sigh, you win.

let's all run around afright because someday, somehow, someone MIGHT be injured or worse by aggressive bees.

Let's not pay attention to the fact that people have better odds of winning the lottery than being killed by bees.

let's not pay attention that medical science has improved to the point of being able to successfully treat victims before life threatening conditions prevail.

let's not pay attention that more people get attacked by rabid dogs every year than by 'killer bees'

Sorry, I just can't do it.   I am just too compelled by logic and reason to let fear blind me.

I guess I'll just have to make sure  I know what to look for and bee aware.

Good luck on the stampede though.

Big Bear
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Jack
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« Reply #66 on: November 16, 2009, 05:39:42 PM »

Lets pretend your bees migrate to the North Pole and while there some natives think they are flies so they bring them into their heated igloo. When the bees turn on the natives and one becomes very sick they seek out the owners. Sadly you have put an add in the paper so are easily tracked down and then they sue you. Never know.
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rdy-b
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« Reply #67 on: November 16, 2009, 06:03:33 PM »

Let's say,In the spring your queen dies and you don't know it.Then the hive builds a new queen and she crosses with a africanized drone. The queen always takes on the African drones aggressiveness.So from the time the queen dies you have all africanized bees in about 3 month. The africanized bees looks like an Italian bee and you can't tell the difference. The African bee has a high swarm rate,so lets say they swarm a month after they have all africanized bees to your neighbors house. He decides to mow his yard and they attack him and kill him because they attack noises. All in about 4 months,that would be about in July and you don't even know you got africanized bees,and don't even collect your honey until Aug. You do a spring check of your hive and one in two months after they have a new queen but not many of her bees are africanized yet,then after collecting the honey an other check. You don't even know their mean africanized bees until you collect the honey in Aug. and they attack you.
the agresive trait is past through miacondrial DNA-which only comes from the mother -thats why we requeen -hopes this makes sense  cheesy once you keep the queen line true -your stocks will follow- Wink RDY-B
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sarafina
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« Reply #68 on: November 16, 2009, 06:55:18 PM »

Let's say,In the spring your queen dies and you don't know it.Then the hive builds a new queen and she crosses with a africanized drone. The queen always takes on the African drones aggressiveness.So from the time the queen dies you have all africanized bees in about 3 month. The africanized bees looks like an Italian bee and you can't tell the difference. The African bee has a high swarm rate,so lets say they swarm a month after they have all africanized bees to your neighbors house. He decides to mow his yard and they attack him and kill him because they attack noises. All in about 4 months,that would be about in July and you don't even know you got africanized bees,and don't even collect your honey until Aug. You do a spring check of your hive and one in two months after they have a new queen but not many of her bees are africanized yet,then after collecting the honey an other check. You don't even know their mean africanized bees until you collect the honey in Aug. and they attack you.

Joelel, the scenario you mention can happen to ANY beekeeper in AHB areas - basically the lower third of the US.  It happened to me and I have my bees in the city and re-queened and the hive is gentle now.  Based on your scenario, everybody in AHB areas should destroy their hives IN CASE they might produce bees that could kill someone - that includes YOU, btw.

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kathyp
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« Reply #69 on: November 16, 2009, 07:08:57 PM »

joelel, i read enough of this to give me a headache.  by your way of thinking, and i use "thinking" intending the broadest possible definition, no one should keep bees unless they live at least 3 mile away from any other human.  maybe 5 miles would be safer.  your country swarms are apt to kill livestock, pets, and people, as swarms can travel great distances.  heck, we all should just give it up and buy cuban sugar!

in all of your writing, i fail to see your point.  best i can make out, you  have something against  people in town keeping bees.  you have a right to your opinion, but you could have saved your fingers and just made that simple statement.  all the rest is noise.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Joelel
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« Reply #70 on: November 16, 2009, 09:00:10 PM »

They said on the TV program,a queen that mates with a africanized drone,all her eggs take on the aggressive genetics.
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Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation
rdy-b
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« Reply #71 on: November 16, 2009, 09:10:25 PM »

 cool Drones arnt aggressive  :loll: the african queen can lay a infertile egg and propagate a drone -drone is haploid has 1/2 alles as mother with MTDNA-drones have no daddy rolleyes just grand dadys-thats the reason drones arnt aggressive -female are diplode-they have both sets of alles- cheesy  RDY-B
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Joelel
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« Reply #72 on: November 16, 2009, 09:13:09 PM »

I love getting you people going,it gives me a charge and some of you fall for it every time. I still think the city is no place to keep bees. You have no respect for people who fear them,then again not many people respect other people anyway.
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Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation
Jack
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« Reply #73 on: November 16, 2009, 09:14:06 PM »

I hope that New Waverly keeps their gene pool within the city limits.
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Joelel
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« Reply #74 on: November 16, 2009, 09:19:36 PM »

cool Drones arnt aggressive  :loll: the african queen can lay a infertile egg and propagate a drone -drone is haploid has 1/2 alles as mother with MTDNA-drones have no daddy rolleyes just grand dadys-thats the reason drones arnt aggressive -female are diplode-they have both sets of alles- cheesy  RDY-B

What ever,argue with the people who made the TV program.The africanized drones have the aggressive genetics.
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Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation
Natalie
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« Reply #75 on: November 16, 2009, 09:26:05 PM »

Okay, so now you have Big Bear hiding under his bed and poor Jack is out in the middle of the street screaming that the sky is falling, I on the other hand remain calm cool and collected grin
What do you have to gain? What now?
You have succeeded in getting everyone in a panic... and your point would be?
What is it you have accomplished?
Pointless.
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Joelel
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« Reply #76 on: November 16, 2009, 09:26:41 PM »

I hope that New Waverly keeps their gene pool within the city limits.

They do,all their bees drink from the gene pool.
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Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation
rdy-b
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« Reply #77 on: November 16, 2009, 09:33:49 PM »

cool Drones arnt aggressive  :loll: the african queen can lay a infertile egg and propagate a drone -drone is haploid has 1/2 alles as mother with MTDNA-drones have no daddy rolleyes just grand dadys-thats the reason drones arnt aggressive -female are dip-lode-they have both sets of alles- :loll:  RDY-B

What ever,argue with the people who made the TV program.The africanized drones have the aggressive genetics.
BY your way of thinking fertile eggs -that have african drones for the parent are aggressive because the father was african -But what if she lays a infertile egg with no influence from african drone -from what you say it would not be aggressive -because you say aggression comes from the drone-BUT the set of alles came from the mother-because they have no father-its the MTDNA from mom that makes it african--
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Joelel
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« Reply #78 on: November 16, 2009, 09:48:31 PM »

cool Drones arnt aggressive  :loll: the african queen can lay a infertile egg and propagate a drone -drone is haploid has 1/2 alles as mother with MTDNA-drones have no daddy rolleyes just grand dadys-thats the reason drones arnt aggressive -female are dip-lode-they have both sets of alles- :loll:  RDY-B

What ever,argue with the people who made the TV program.The africanized drones have the aggressive genetics.
BY your way of thinking fertile eggs -that have african drones for the parent are aggressive because the father was african -But what if she lays a infertile egg with no influence from african drone -from what you say it would not be aggressive -because you say aggression comes from the drone-BUT the set of alles came from the mother-because they have no father-its the MTDNA from mom that makes it african--

I know they say what you are saying but it's not true.Then why do bee breeders artificial inseminate their queens to keep them of a pure breed ? Ones who don't can't guarantee what kind of bees she will have. I have a hive that the same queen had one breed of bees for a time ,then it changed.
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Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation
Bee Happy
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« Reply #79 on: November 16, 2009, 09:51:09 PM »

 beat a dead horse
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be happy and make others happy.
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