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Author Topic: Raising Africanized Bees?  (Read 10400 times)
Joelel
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« Reply #40 on: November 10, 2009, 10:15:41 AM »

from what i understand -African Bees do not form winter clusters like Eb's it seams to others and myself that they will be held at about the 30 degree latitude line  Wink we all know honeybees have to cluster to survive cold temps- cool RDY-B

Where did you get this info. ? I read all kind of info. on the africanized bee and never read that. I'm sure the mixing of the genetics will allow them to adapt to cold anyways.
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Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation
Joelel
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« Reply #41 on: November 10, 2009, 10:26:40 AM »

http://www.sdnhm.org/research/entomology/ahb.html

Please understand,Africanized bees are bees that are crossed with other breed of bees.They are not pure African bees.

Africanized Honey Bees
Identifying Africanized Honey Bees

Africanized honey bees are physically similar to European honey bees. There are few distinctive traits that can be observed with the naked eye. Definite identification must be performed in a laboratory where more than 20 different structures are measured and compared, or the DNA and enzymes are analyzed.

More apparent differences lie in the behavior of the bees.

Africanized honey bees are highly defensive and easily agitated. In as little as three seconds, they will respond to a perceived threat with considerable force. European honey bees take as long as 30 seconds to react to a perceived threat.
Africanized honey bee colonies have a larger proportion of soldiers among their workers than European colonies. An Africanized honey bee colony may have as many as 2000 soldiers ready to defend it; the European honey bee colony uses 1/10th that number.
Africanized honey bees will pursue a perceived antagonist as far as 1/4 of a mile; European honey bees, about 30 yards.
During an attack, the Africanized honey bees deliver as many as ten times the number of stings as their European counterparts.
Africanized honey bees may need one or two days to calm down after a disturbance. European honey bees usually calm down within a few hours.
The Africanized honey bees tend to reproduce and swarm more often than European honey bees.
When resources begin to dwindle, the Africanized honey bees will completely abandon the hive, taking large amounts of honey with them. This allows the colony to move over greater distances than European honey bees.
Africanized honey bee swarms will take over a European honey bee hive if the hive has been weakened or the queen has died.
The Africanized honey bee colony produces more drones (males) than the European hive. The Africanized honey bee drones search out mates more vigorously and successfully than the European drones.


Avoiding Trouble

While it is true that Africanized honey bees are highly defensive insects, the threat they pose to human populations has been exaggerated. Approximately 40 people die in this country each year as a result of stinging insects. To avoid trouble with bees and wasps, here are some safety suggestions:

Avoid swarms or wild colonies that have established in yard clutter, trees, or walls. Swarming is a normal part of the bee reproductive cycle and most bees are not dangerous when they swarm, however Africanized honey bees are very protective of their colonies, even while swarming.
Do not throw rocks or other objects at a hive.
Watch for bees when operating gas-powered mowers, blowers, or other yard maintenance machinery. Africanized honey bees are easily disturbed by the vibration and exhaust.
Do not wear dark clothing or strong perfume/cologne/aftershave if you must approach any bees.
Keep pets away from hives, especially during hikes or walks.
If horseback riding, avoid brush or low-hanging branches where bees might nest.


Bee-Proofing

a few simple precautions can help you bee-proof your home and property.

Remove any clutter from your property. Africanized honey bees are not as particular as Europeans about their nesting sites and will use almost any type of available space, including meter boxes, tires, or downspouts, for a hive.
Periodically check your home and yard for indications of hives. a steady flow of bees to and from a single location is a good indication of a hive. Call a professional pest controller to have the hive removed. Do not try to remove or destroy the hive yourself.
Check your exterior wall for cracks or other openings, such as holes where pipes or wiring enter your home. Fill these with caulk or steel wool. If you find that bees are already inside your exterior walls, do not block the entrance. The bees may be forced into your home as they try to find a way out of the wall.
If you have chimneys or downspouts, cover the openings with fine screens (less than 1/8th inch mesh).


Emergency Measures

If you encounter Africanized honey bees:

Run away as quickly as possible. Protect your head, especially your eyes and mouth.
Get inside a secure, enclosed structure, such as a car or building, before attempting to remove any stingers. a chemical called an "alarm pheromone" is released when bees sting. It draws more bees to the victim.
Do not attempt to fool the bees by hiding or "playing dead" if you are stung. The bees will continue to sting you.
Do not jump into water, such as a swimming pool. Africanized bees will wait for a victim to surface.
If you are with someone who cannot run away from the bees, cover them with a blanket, tarp, or other material. This will not prevent bees already on the victim from stinging, but it could prevent additional injury. Do not stay with the victim -- the bees will turn their attention to you. Run for help
Logged

Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation
Joelel
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« Reply #42 on: November 10, 2009, 10:58:08 AM »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africanized_bee

Africanized bee
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
"Killer bee" redirects here. For other uses, see Killer bees (disambiguation).
 This article needs additional citations for verification.
Please help improve this article by adding reliable references. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (January 2009)
Africanized honey bee
 
Conservation status
Secure
Scientific classification
Kingdom: Animalia
 
Phylum: Arthropoda
 
Class: Insecta
 
Order: Hymenoptera
 
Suborder: Apocrita
 
Subfamily: Apinae
 
Tribe: Apini
 
Genus: Apis
 
Species
HYBRID (see text)
 
Africanized honey bees (AHB), known colloquially as "killer bees" or Africanized bees, are hybrids of the African honey bee, Apis mellifera scutellata (not A. m. adansonii see Collet et al., 2006), with various European honey bees such as the Italian bee A. m. ligustica and A. m. iberiensis. These bees are relatively aggressive compared to the European subspecies. Small swarms of AHBs are capable of taking over European honey bee hives by invading the hive and establishing their own queen after killing the European queen.[1]

Contents [hide]
1 History
2 Geographic spread
3 Morphology and genetics
4 Consequences of selection
4.1 Defensiveness
4.2 Fear factor
4.3 Queen management in Africanized bee areas
5 Impact on existing apiculture
5.1 Gentle Africanized bees
6 References
7 External links
 

[edit] History
The mikkonized bee in the western hemisphere descended from 26 Tanzanian queen bees (A. m. scutellata) accidentally released by a replacement bee-keeper in 1957 near Rio Claro, São Paulo State in the southeast of Brazil from hives operated by biologist Warwick E. Kerr, who had interbred honey bees from Europe and southern Africa. Hives containing these particular queens were noted to be especially defensive. Kerr was attempting to breed a strain of bees that would be better adapted to tropical conditions (i.e., more productive) than the European bees used in South America and southern North America. The hives from which the bees were released had special excluder grates which were in place to prevent the larger queen bees from getting out but to allow the drones free access to mate with the queen. Unfortunately, following the accidental release, the African queens eventually mated with local drones, and their descendants have since spread throughout the Americas.

The mikko hybrid bees have become the preferred type of bee for beekeeping in Central America and in tropical areas of South America because of improved productivity. However, in most areas the Africanized hybrid is initially feared because it tends to retain certain behavioral traits from its African ancestors that make it less desirable for domestic beekeeping. Specifically (as compared with the European bee types), the Africanized bee:

Tends to swarm more frequently.
Is more likely to migrate as part of a seasonal response to lowered food supply.
Is more likely to "abscond"—the entire colony leaves the hive and relocates—in response to stress.
Has greater defensiveness when in a resting swarm.
Lives more often in ground cavities than the European types.
Guards the hive aggressively, with a larger alarm zone around the hive.
Has a higher proportion of "guard" bees within the hive.
Deploys in greater numbers for defense and pursues perceived threats over much longer distances from the hive.
Cannot survive extended periods of forage deprivation, preventing introduction into areas with harsh winters or extremely dry late summers.
[edit] Geographic spread
 
Map showing the spread of Africanized honey bees in the United States from 1990 to 2003As of 2002, Africanized honey bees had spread from Brazil south to northern Argentina and north to South and Central America, Trinidad (West Indies), Mexico, Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, Florida and southern California. Their expansion stopped for a time at eastern Texas, possibly due to the large number of European-bee beekeepers in the area. However, discoveries of the bees in southern Louisiana indicate this species of bee has penetrated this barrier [2], or has come as a swarm aboard a ship. In June 2005, it was discovered that the bees had penetrated the border of Texas and had spread into southwest Arkansas. On September 11, 2007, Commissioner Bob Odom of the Department of Agriculture and Forestry said that Africanized honey bees established themselves in the New Orleans area.[3] In February 2009, africanized honeybees were found in southern Utah.[4][5]

In tropical climates they compete effectively against European bees and, at their peak rate of expansion, they spread north at a rate of almost two kilometers (about one mile) a day. There were discussions about slowing the spread by placing large numbers of docile European-strain hives in strategic locations, particularly at the Isthmus of Panama, but various national and international agricultural departments were unable to prevent the bees' expansion. Current knowledge of the genetics of these bees suggests that such a strategy, had it been attempted, would not have been successful.[6]

As the Africanized honey bee migrates further north, colonies are interbreeding with European honey bees. There are now relatively stable geographic zones in which either Africanized bees dominate, a mix of Africanized and European bees is present, or only non-Africanized bees are found (as in southern South America or northern North America).

Africanized honey bees abscond (abandon the hive and any food stores to start over in a new location) more readily than European honey bees. This is not necessarily a severe loss in tropical climates where plants bloom all year but in more temperate climates it can leave the colony with insufficient stores to survive the winter. Thus Africanized bees are expected to be a hazard mostly in the Southern States of the United States, reaching as far north as the Chesapeake Bay in the east. The cold-weather limits of the Africanized bee have driven some professional bee breeders from Southern California into the harsher wintering locales of the northern Sierra Nevada and southern Cascade range. This is a more difficult area in which to prepare bees for early pollination placement, such as is required for the production of almonds. The reduced available winter forage in northern California means that bees must be fed for early spring buildup.

Curiously, their arrival in Central America is a threat to the ancient art of keeping stingless bees in log gums even though they do not interbreed or directly compete with the stingless bees. The honey productivity of the africanized bees so far exceeds the productivity of the native stingless bees that economic pressures force beekeepers to switch. Africanized honey bees are considered an invasive species in many regions.

[edit] Morphology and genetics
The popular term 'Africanized bee' has only limited scientific meaning today because there is no generally accepted fraction of genetic contribution used to establish a cut-off. While the native African bees are smaller, and build smaller comb cells than the European bee, their hybrids are not smaller. They do have slightly shorter wings, which can be reliably recognized only by performing a statistical analysis on micro-measurements of a substantial sample. One problem with this test is that there is also an Egyptian bee, present in the southeastern United States, that has the same morphology. Currently testing techniques have moved away from external measurements to DNA analysis, but this means the test can only be done by a sophisticated laboratory. Molecular diagnostics using the mitochondrial DNA cytochrome b gene can differentiate A. m. scutellata from other A. mellifera lineages [7]

There are two lineages of Africanized bees in the Americas: those which are actual matrilinial descendants of the original escaped queens (carrying African mitochondrial DNA, but partially European nuclear DNA) are in the vast majority, though there is also a much smaller number which have become Africanized through hybridization (thus carrying European mitochondrial DNA, and partially African nuclear DNA). This is supported by DNA analyses performed on the bees as they spread northwards; those that were at the "vanguard" were over 90% African mitochondrial DNA, indicating an unbroken matriline (Smith et al., 1989), but after several years in residence in an area interbreeding with the local European strains, as in Brazil, the overall representation of African mitochondrial DNA drops to some degree. However, these latter hybrid lines (with European mtDNA) do not appear to propagate themselves well or persist.[8]

[edit] Consequences of selection
The chief difference between the European races or subspecies of bees kept by American beekeepers and the Africanized stock is attributable to selective breeding. The most common race used in North America today is the Italian bee, Apis mellifera ligustica, which has been used for several thousand years in some parts of the world and in the Americas since the arrival of the early European colonists. Beekeepers have tended to eliminate the fierce strains, and the entire race of bees has thus been gentled by selective breeding.

In central and southern Africa, bees have had to defend themselves against other aggressive insects, as well as honey badgers, an animal that also will destroy hives if the bees are not sufficiently defensive. In addition, there was formerly no tradition of beekeeping, only bee robbing. When one wanted honey, one would seek out a bee tree and kill the colony, or at least steal its honey. The colony most likely to survive either animal or human attacks was the fiercest one. These hardy bees had to adapt to the hostile environment of sub-saharan Africa – surviving prolonged droughts and fighting for nectar. Thus the African bee has been naturally selected for ferocity.

[edit] Defensiveness
Africanized bees are characterized by greater defensiveness in established hives than European honey bees. They are more likely to attack a perceived threat and, when they do so, attack relentlessly in larger numbers. This aggressively protective behavior has been termed by scientists as hyper-defensive behavior. This defensiveness has earned them the nickname "killer bees," the aptness of which is debated. Over the decades, several deaths in the Americas have been attributed to Africanized bees. The venom of an Africanized bee is no more potent than that of a normal honey bee, but since the former tends to sting in greater numbers, the number of deaths from them are greater than from the European honey bee.[citation needed] However, allergic reaction to bee venom from any bee can kill a person, and it is difficult to estimate how many more people have died due to the presence of Africanized bees.

Most human incidents with Africanized bees occur within two or three years of the bees' arrival and then subside. Beekeepers can greatly reduce this problem by culling the queens of aggressive strains and breeding gentler stock. Beekeepers keep A. m. scutellata in South Africa using common beekeeping practices without excessive problems.

[edit] Fear factor
 
Side view of the africanized honey beeThe Africanized bee is widely feared by the public, a reaction that has been amplified by sensationalist movies and some of the media reports. Stings from Africanized bees kill 1–2 people per year in the United States[9], a rate that makes them more dangerous than venomous snakes, particularly since, unlike snakes, they are found only in a small portion of the country.

As the bee spreads through Florida, a densely populated state, officials worry that public fear may force misguided efforts to combat them.

“ News reports of mass stinging attacks will promote concern and in some cases panic and anxiety, and cause citizens to demand responsible agencies and organizations to take action to help insure their safety. We anticipate increased pressure from the public to ban beekeeping in urban and suburban areas. This action would be counter-productive. Beekeepers maintaining managed colonies of domestic European bees are our best defense against an area becoming saturated with AHB. These managed bees are filling an ecological niche that would soon be occupied by less desirable colonies if it were vacant. ”
  — Florida African Bee Action Plan[10]

[edit] Queen management in Africanized bee areas
In Mexico, where Africanized bees are well established, pollination beekeepers have found that a purchased and pre-bred non-Africanized queen may be used to locally create a first generation of virgin queens that are then bred in an uncontrolled fashion with the local wild Africanized drones. These first generation Africanized queens produce worker bees that are manageable, not exhibiting the intense and massive defense reactions of subsequent generations. This offers a relatively economical method of safe local beekeeping conditions that would otherwise quickly lead to hazardous conditions.[citation needed]

[edit] Impact on existing apiculture
In areas of suitable temperate climate, the survival traits of africanized queens and colonies outperform western honey bee colonies. This competitive edge leads to the dominance of African traits. In Brazil, the africanized hybrids are known as Assassin Bees, for their habit of taking over an existing hive of European bees; this habit is most evident when the hive being attacked has a weakened queen, so not all hives are equally vulnerable, and overall rates of hive usurpation can reach 20%[1].

[edit] Gentle Africanized bees
Not all Africanized hives show overly defensive behavior; some colonies are quiet, which gives a beginning point for beekeepers to breed a gentler stock. This has been done in Brazil, where bee incidents are much less common than they were during the first wave of the Africanized bees' colonization. Now that the Africanized bee has been "re-domesticated", it is considered the bee of choice for beekeeping in Brazil.[citation needed]

[edit] References
^ a b S. S. Schneider, T. Deeby, D. C. Gilley and G. DeGrandi-Hoffman, 2004. Seasonal nest usurpation of European colonies by African swarms in Arizona, USA. Insectes Sociaux 51: 356-364.
^ United States Department of Agriculture, 'Africanized Honey Bees'
^ 'Killer bees' descend on New Orleans
^ 'Africanized bees found in Utah for the first time'
^ Utah Department of Agriculture and Food
^ University of Florida IFAS Extension, 'African Honey Bee: What You Need to Know'
^ Szalanski, A.L., and J.A. McKern. 2007. Multiplex PCR-RFLP diagnostics of the Africanized honey bee (Hymenoptera: Apidae). Sociobiology 50: 939–945. link
^ http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/MG113
^ http://www.timesrecordnews.com/news/2009/apr/21/beekeepers-warn-of-summer-threat/
^ http://www.doacs.state.fl.us/pi/plantinsp/apiary/ahbgroup/actionplan.doc
Collet, T., Ferreira, K.M., Arias, M.C., Soares, A.E.E. and Del Lama, M.A. (2006). Genetic structure of Africanized honeybee populations (Apis mellifera L.) from Brazil and Uruguay viewed through mitochondrial DNA COI–COII patterns. Heredity 97, 329–335. doi:10.1038/sj.hdy.6800875
Smith, D.R., Taylor, O.R., Brown, W.M. (1989). Neotropical Africanized honey bees have African mitochondrial DNA. Nature 339: 213–215.
[edit] External links
U.S. Department of the Interior, Biological Resources Discipline
Barry Sergeant, keeper of "killer bees"
AFRICANIZED BEES: They are here to stay. See how these bees spread to Florida.
Africanized honey bee on the UF / IFAS Featured Creatures Web site
Texas A&M University Africanized Honey Bee Information Site
CISR: Center for Invasive Species Research Fact Sheet on Africanized Honey Bees
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Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africanized_bee"
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Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation
bigbearomaha
Guest
« Reply #43 on: November 10, 2009, 01:54:53 PM »

Quote
As Africanized bees expand into temperate areas, their tropical adaptations are less advantageous. Cold weather seems to limit both their defensiveness and overwintering capacity. Africanized bees are more defensive in warm tropical regions and less so in cooler zones. In South America the bees do not overwinter south of 34 degrees S latitude...
 Keith S. Delaplane-Professor of Entomology-University of Georgia College of Agricultural and Environmental Sciences
Africanized Honey Bee, University of Georgia


Quote
Africanized honeybees are descended from stocks that evolved in the tropics and, as such, are ill-equipped to withstand prolonged cold winters. They are believed to be limited to tropical and subtropical habitats.

a study by Abramson et al. (1997) supports the belief that Africanized honeybees are behaviorally and physiologically unsuited to low temperatures. Bees abandoned a hive experimentally maintained at 9°C after 14 days, while survivorship of individual bees exposed to 0°C for 4 hours was low.

Africanized Honey Bee Page
Smithsonian Marine Station at Fort Pierce

Africanized Honey Bees are able to be re-bred by re-queening them with european stock as South and Central american beekeepers have been doing successfully for some years now.  This is within the "tropical" and "sub-tropical" areas they are most known to show full scale africanized traits.

As they progress to cooler climates, they're unable to cope with cooler temperatures and the lack of foraging during winter months inhibits their ability to successfully maintain food levels sufficient to maintain the colony.

It has also been noted that the actual genetics will change as they progress into cooler climes and the more docile, resource frugal european traits become more dominant.

Africanized honeybees are not something to spread unnecessary fear about.  armed with proper information, being properly prepared, a beekeeper can be successful at managing 'africanized' honey bees.  As to how public areas such as cities where feral africanized bees take up residence, those Central and South american cities have also learned effective practices of dealing with them and public incidents of death or major problem have dropped significantly since the first waves of the africanized stock came through.

As beekeepers or bee handlers in these forums, it behooves us to become better educated and develop practices that will instill confidence to the general public that the presence of africanized honey bees doesn't have to be a low budget horror movie type of drama.

Have you hugged your bees today? heh heh

Big Bear
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Joelel
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« Reply #44 on: November 10, 2009, 06:25:38 PM »

from what i understand -African Bees do not form winter clusters like Eb's it seams to others and myself that they will be held at about the 30 degree latitude line  Wink we all know honeybees have to cluster to survive cold temps- cool RDY-B

If your talking about cluster to cover the brood to keep them at 92degree.I'm sure they do cluster.
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Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation
Joelel
Field Bee
***
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Gender: Male
Posts: 578


Location: Dallas,Texas


« Reply #45 on: November 10, 2009, 06:51:00 PM »

Quote
As Africanized bees expand into temperate areas, their tropical adaptations are less advantageous. Cold weather seems to limit both their defensiveness and overwintering capacity. Africanized bees are more defensive in warm tropical regions and less so in cooler zones. In South America the bees do not overwinter south of 34 degrees S latitude...
 Keith S. Delaplane-Professor of Entomology-University of Georgia College of Agricultural and Environmental Sciences
Africanized Honey Bee, University of Georgia



Quote
Africanized honeybees are descended from stocks that evolved in the tropics and, as such, are ill-equipped to withstand prolonged cold winters. They are believed to be limited to tropical and subtropical habitats.

a study by Abramson et al. (1997) supports the belief that Africanized honeybees are behaviorally and physiologically unsuited to low temperatures. Bees abandoned a hive experimentally maintained at 9°C after 14 days, while survivorship of individual bees exposed to 0°C for 4 hours was low.

Africanized Honey Bee Page
Smithsonian Marine Station at Fort Pierce

Africanized Honey Bees are able to be re-bred by re-queening them with european stock as South and Central american beekeepers have been doing successfully for some years now.  This is within the "tropical" and "sub-tropical" areas they are most known to show full scale africanized traits.

As they progress to cooler climates, they're unable to cope with cooler temperatures and the lack of foraging during winter months inhibits their ability to successfully maintain food levels sufficient to maintain the colony.

It has also been noted that the actual genetics will change as they progress into cooler climes and the more docile, resource frugal european traits become more dominant.

Africanized honeybees are not something to spread unnecessary fear about.  armed with proper information, being properly prepared, a beekeeper can be successful at managing 'africanized' honey bees.  As to how public areas such as cities where feral africanized bees take up residence, those Central and South american cities have also learned effective practices of dealing with them and public incidents of death or major problem have dropped significantly since the first waves of the africanized stock came through.

As beekeepers or bee handlers in these forums, it behooves us to become better educated and develop practices that will instill confidence to the general public that the presence of africanized honey bees doesn't have to be a low budget horror movie type of drama.

Have you hugged your bees today? heh heh

Big Bear



Note the second part of his writing.

Potential Range of Africanized Bees in the United States
As Africanized bees expand into temperate areas, their tropical adaptations are less advantageous. Cold weather seems to limit both their defensiveness and overwintering capacity. Africanized bees are more defensive in warm tropical regions and less so in cooler zones. In South America the bees do not overwinter south of 34 degrees S latitude, which corresponds roughly to Atlanta, Georgia. (Please note, however, that Africanized bees are north of this latitude in the American West.)

In areas where their ranges overlap, African- and European-derived bees interbreed, causing “hybrid zones” where bees share African and European traits. In Argentina, Africanized bees dominate in the northern semitropical regions but European bees dominate in the southern temperate areas; the area in between (ca. 32-34 degrees latitude) is a hybrid zone where bees have varying degrees of African or European traits. A similar pattern may occur in the United States, with African traits dominating in southern regions.
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Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation
bigbearomaha
Guest
« Reply #46 on: November 10, 2009, 07:50:06 PM »

and how exactly does that change the fact that we must approach the situation with calm, educated thinking?

Regardless of a buffer zone, there will be a point in which they will not go farther north.  

As to the 'buffer zone' where they overlap, the bees being in a cooler area, certainly cooler than a subtropical area and showing a more mixed genetic range will result in likely less aggressive behavior by those bees.

All in all, still nothing to over respond to.


Big Bear
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weBEE Jammin
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« Reply #47 on: November 10, 2009, 09:57:38 PM »

I like your approach and attitude Big Bear. Who's to say climates and temps will not change in some areas. We have been breaking temp records recently!
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sfisher
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« Reply #48 on: November 11, 2009, 04:56:00 AM »

"Mutant Bees"  Will be on the science channel (11/15@10:00pm,11/16@1:00am,11/17@5:00am)

Genetically modied African bees give birth to a more aggressive hybrid strain.
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Joelel
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« Reply #49 on: November 12, 2009, 02:13:03 PM »

and how exactly does that change the fact that we must approach the situation with calm, educated thinking?

Regardless of a buffer zone, there will be a point in which they will not go farther north.  

As to the 'buffer zone' where they overlap, the bees being in a cooler area, certainly cooler than a subtropical area and showing a more mixed genetic range will result in likely less aggressive behavior by those bees.

All in all, still nothing to over respond to.


Big Bear

You never know what genetics they will pick up.Some may pick up the cold genetics and not the aggressiveness or both or the other way around. Genetics can be picked up for three generations. A gentle queen can have some gentle bees and some aggressive or it can change in the next three generations.Anything can change back and fourth.
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Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation
Jack
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« Reply #50 on: November 12, 2009, 05:15:04 PM »

Wish I could find some cut and paste material but I can't. I would think it is important to remember that we are for the most part hobbyists here and with common sense and determination have pursued this hobby. Those who would push their implied genetic knowledge upon us might be better served to work it hard on a form for those discussions. Were I to become African bee phobic it might take the fun out of this whole hobby.
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weBEE Jammin
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« Reply #51 on: November 12, 2009, 05:58:34 PM »

Thank you sfisher for the heads up  on the "Mutant Bees" on the science channel. That should be interesting.
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Joelel
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« Reply #52 on: November 13, 2009, 11:16:01 AM »

Wish I could find some cut and paste material but I can't. I would think it is important to remember that we are for the most part hobbyists here and with common sense and determination have pursued this hobby. Those who would push their implied genetic knowledge upon us might be better served to work it hard on a form for those discussions. Were I to become African bee phobic it might take the fun out of this whole hobby.


You know Jack,many people all they want to do is,be happy with their hobbies doing their little thing not giving a flip about the down side of things.Not giving a flip about africanized bees the affect it will have with thousands of so called bee keepers keeping millions of bees in cities for green or what ever.Not carring about their neighbors when their bees swarm into their houses and stinging them and killing them. Oh yes then you get into law suits.Phobic,NO,using their brains, yes if they have any.

If you want info. on genetics all you have to do is type honey bee genetics in your search and there you go.

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=Honey%20Bee%20Genetics&fr=mcsaoffblock
http://maarec.cas.psu.edu/bkCD/HBBiology/breeding_genetics.htm

Read,read,read,be happy,happy,happy.Till you get sued.

 thunder fishhit happy campers catch chick delivery piano pop
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Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation
bigbearomaha
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« Reply #53 on: November 13, 2009, 12:41:48 PM »

I don't think anyone is saying not to care about africanized bees, however, significant progress has been made in central and south america that shows over reacting is unwarranted.  Africanized bees can be worked with and even 'calmed down' with appropriate measures.

By all means, be educated, informed and be prepared.

Big Bear
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weBEE Jammin
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« Reply #54 on: November 14, 2009, 10:19:25 PM »

Great education! You can never learn enough! I want to be prepared to handle any situation that turns up. Thanks again all.
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Joelel
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« Reply #55 on: November 15, 2009, 07:20:03 PM »

"Mutant Bees"  Will be on the science channel (11/15@10:00pm,11/16@1:00am,11/17@5:00am)

Genetically modied African bees give birth to a more aggressive hybrid strain.

Just reminding everyone to try and watch this tonight or tomarrow. I think this will be along the line of what I'm trying to get people to get a grip on.
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Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation
Natalie
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« Reply #56 on: November 15, 2009, 07:40:23 PM »

I am trying to figure out why you are so upset that no one in this thread is getting alarmed.
Trying to stir things up does no one any good, the chicken little the sky is falling mentality does nothing but serve to muddy the real facts surrounding the issue.
How are all these beekeepers going to get sued? Can anyone prove where bees come from?
If I go to the city how should I prove a bee belongs to a particular person?
This is along the lines of worrying about when, where and if another terrorist attack will happen, if the supermarkets will suddenly close, or any other major catastrophe. Who wants to sit and dwell on things like that?
I am with Jack on this, a hobby should be fun and if its not then you should give it up and find something else you enjoy.
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bigbearomaha
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« Reply #57 on: November 15, 2009, 09:06:01 PM »

Quote
I think this will be along the line of what I'm trying to get people to get a grip on.

You cannot be serious.

If you had read even a little bit of the works of Warwick Kerr, the biologist from who the original bees escaped, you have to have read the findings  I mentioned earlier that these bees do not get 'more' aggressive' as they approach cooler climates, but less aggressive.

According to most studies, africanized honey bees maintain predominantly african traits in tropical and subtropical climes.  If there is adaptation as they approach cooler climes, they adapt to the european bee genetics becoming more dominant and those of the african receding.

It appears you are more interested in hyperbole than actual facts.

Big Bear
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rdy-b
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« Reply #58 on: November 15, 2009, 09:09:25 PM »

There are two lineages of Africanized bees in the Americas: those which are actual matrilinial descendants of the original escaped queens (carrying African mitochondrial DNA, but partially European nuclear DNA) are in the vast majority, though there is also a much smaller number which have become Africanized through hybridization (thus carrying European mitochondrial DNA, and partially African nuclear DNA). This is supported by DNA analyses performed on the bees as they spread northwards; those that were at the "vanguard" were over 90% African mitochondrial DNA, indicating an unbroken matriline (Smith et al., 1989), but after several years in residence in an area interbreeding with the local European strains, as in Brazil, the overall representation of African mitochondrial DNA drops to some degree. However, these latter hybrid lines (with European mtDNA) do not appear to propagate themselves well or persist.
[edit]    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africanized_bee


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Re: Raising Africanized Bees?
« Reply #40 on: November 10, 2009, 07:15:41 AM »
Quote
Quote from: rdy-b on November 08, 2009, 06:09:30 PM
from what i understand -African Bees do not form winter clusters like Eb's it seams to others and myself that they will be held at about the 30 degree latitude line   we all know honeybees have to cluster to survive cold temps-  RDY-B

Where did you get this info. ? I read all kind of info. on the africanized bee and never read that. I'm sure the mixing of the genetics will allow them to adapt to cold anyways.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2009, 09:24:50 PM by rdy-b » Logged
fermentedhiker
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« Reply #59 on: November 15, 2009, 09:27:08 PM »

It actually makes sense that we would see a stabilization of traits by region after enough time has passed for several generations of interbreeding.  All of a given strain or subspecies of honeybee's traits are adapted to it's local or home climate, not just their hot/cold tolerance.  Just my .02c but the reason honeybee subspecies that are found in temperate regions are not known for their aggressiveness (typically) is that they are poorly served by it.  This selective pressure holds true regardless of the subspecies you are introducing artificially.  I know in my area if a hive that responded "en force" to every time some animal went near the hive(most of which aren't a threat to the hive) they would find it difficult to recover with the short foraging season we have and would be outcompeted by hives which showed more discretion in their defense response.  I have sympathy for those beekeepers who live in climates that mean they will have to cope with AHB at some point if they don't already do, but I don't see any reasonable cause to worry about it where I am.

Adam
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