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Author Topic: Sugar vs Fondant  (Read 11674 times)
lenape13
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« Reply #40 on: October 07, 2009, 12:10:38 PM »

I would REALLY like to comment further, but in my culture, if you have nothing good to say about something or someone, you either keep silent, or say something harmless like, "It's okay, he's from ________, and that's what they do."  I have always had problems with the keeping silent, so I will simply say, "It's okay, he's from _________________, and that's what they do.....      rolleyes evil cool
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Finski
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« Reply #41 on: October 07, 2009, 12:30:14 PM »

.
I själva verket  björnbee är som in i röv skjutat björn.
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Scadsobees
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« Reply #42 on: October 07, 2009, 12:52:05 PM »

میں نے خیال نہیں کیا اور نہ ہی یہ کہہ رہے ہیں کہ اپ مجھے واقعی توجہ نہیں دی.

 grin

(That is Urdu for roughly "I have no idea what you are saying, nor do I really care." from freetranslation.com but it probably translated to something more like "I have emus on you say, but I kiss donkeys")

How about

Minulla on et ajatus, mikä sinä sanot, eikä tee minä todella välittää.

or

Jag har ingen idè som du säger, eller gör jag verkligen mig bryr om.

But then again I only know English, so freetranslation.com probably inserted some horrible insult in there...

 grin

 butt kick

Now lets put the guns, swords and pens down and all get along.

 cheer

We're all a little different (and some of us are more different than most!) and everybody does things differently.
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Rick
Finski
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« Reply #43 on: October 07, 2009, 01:02:37 PM »

.
Try google translator
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Irwin
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howdy all


« Reply #44 on: October 07, 2009, 01:26:41 PM »

bjornbee, if you ever met finski i think you two would be good friends.  you seem to be very much alike!
grin
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buzzbee
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« Reply #45 on: October 07, 2009, 05:43:40 PM »

Lets not start bashing others opinions here. The question was:
Which way of feeding would be best when feeding during and/or before winter?  Feeding sugar on top of newspaper in the hive or fondant?
I am sure there are successes with both ways. What are the pros and cons I think is the better question. If you can't answer without name calling or beliitling someone,please find a thread you can do so.
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David LaFerney
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« Reply #46 on: October 07, 2009, 07:01:44 PM »

bjornbee, if you ever met finski i think you two would be good friends.  you seem to be very much alike!
@Irwin
OK.  I gotta say.  Your avatar freaks me out.  Please tell me it's just a Halloween thing.
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psbeekeeper
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« Reply #47 on: October 07, 2009, 11:45:35 PM »

@buzzbee

Can you answer those questions?
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kathyp
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« Reply #48 on: October 08, 2009, 12:11:56 AM »

ps, i'll take a crack at it. 

the best way to feed is to feed syrup early enough to get them ready for winter.  the second best is probably fondant, but not all of us have access to it, or care to make it.  dry sugar is an emergency food source. 

i use it after i have fed syrup to hold any hives that get light before i get a chance to check them.  fondant is usually used the same way.

use either as a back-stop to the syrup feeding you should have already done.  if you live a dry winter climate and use dry sugar, you need to moisten it a bit for the bees.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Finski
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« Reply #49 on: October 08, 2009, 12:41:35 AM »

.
Well said Kathyp.

It would be good to US beekeeping if you have advices according climate.

But with your jar system autumn will be over before bees get enough food. Get normal upper feeders and they will take syrup in 3 days.

I have noticed that in Alaska your beekeeping systems are like in deep South. That is why they kill
hives and bye new in spring and start from beginning. At the level of Anhorage we have in Finland a beekeeper who has 3000 hives. He sells for example hives to England.

But now, I leave again you in peace. You have your own tricks.
It is so different continent that from Brasil to Alaska tundra no one else can say any usefull there.
It is same in England too. They rare so special and nothing to learn. Many preferto go back 200 with his their tp bars.

Happy feeding to all of you! In summer you feed syrup and in winter dry sugar!
Your winter dead rate is a quite high  40% but such is life.

.
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Finski
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« Reply #50 on: October 08, 2009, 02:47:38 AM »

.
Need to learn?

Europe have used polyhives 20 years. Now Canada try is it possible to use them.

Europe have done over 10 years varroa researches like trickling, and USA do the same experiments now.

If you are big enough, you need to learn from others.

I have got my knowledge from american beekeeping. Thanks to your magazines.

Still I say that your insulation and relative moisture knowledge is on childrens'  level.
Try to learn, how it really is.

But beekeepers need macgic and humbug. Otherwise it is not worth living.

« Last Edit: October 08, 2009, 06:07:56 AM by Finski » Logged

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Finski
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« Reply #51 on: October 08, 2009, 06:11:10 AM »

.
Best, what I learned about feeding this year

is to use pulsator loundry machine in syrup making.  It was marvellous. Timer on, and it mixed the sugar into hot water.
40 kg sugar + 20 litre water.

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Irwin
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howdy all


« Reply #52 on: October 08, 2009, 06:49:06 AM »

bjornbee, if you ever met finski i think you two would be good friends.  you seem to be very much alike!
@Irwin
OK.  I gotta say.  Your avatar freaks me out.  Please tell me it's just a Halloween thing.
Yes just for October grin
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Robo
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« Reply #53 on: October 08, 2009, 08:09:41 AM »

Which way of feeding would be best when feeding during and/or before winter?  Feeding sugar on top of newspaper in the hive or fondant?

My 2¢

Feed 2-1 syrup up until the weather doesn't allow them to ripen it.   Around here, I stop feeding syrup around October 1st.  I normally only feed those that need it in the month of September.    After this point any hives that still need feed get either dry sugar on newspaper directly on the top bars,  or a candy board in place of an inner cover (nucs get candy frame). You can also pour dry sugar on top of the inner cover around the hole,  but the bees can still starve if they don't get warm enough weather to break cluster to get to the food.  By placing it on the top bars, the cluster can move right to it.

As far as Fondant goes,  some folks like it some folks don't.   I don't want to get into the debate of HFCS in this thread, you can do a search and find all the discussions pertaining to GM and neonicotinoids and make your own decisions. There has also been a recent study that showed HFCS heated to 120F has a dramatic jump in HMF levels (the same stuff that is bad for bees when you heat honey). Of course,  there are debates back and forth on both sides of this, so another decision for you to make.  I have heard from others who claim, given a choice, the bees will choose sugar syrup over HFCS.  Some find working/handling Fondant to be easier than sugar, but it is not as readily available and cost a little more.

So, syrup should be first choice if weather permits,  then dry sugar or Fondant depending on your personal preference.
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Finski
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« Reply #54 on: October 08, 2009, 09:36:55 AM »


 There has also been a recent study that showed HFCS heated to 120F has a dramatic jump in HMF levels (the same stuff that is bad for bees when you heat honey).


On another hand, I tried one year to make syrup in cold water and the sugar content remain too low. They were not able to dry up the syrup fast enough and cap the food, and I met losses.

Jep. it is really low temp, 49C. 

55C is a water temp, whic hand feel it burns, but it does not make damage to the skin.

I have heated my syrup water usually something to 80C and then mixed sugar in it. - I do not say that tens of years and so have done another beekeepers too.

I have not noticed that my bees feel bad even if they use that syrup from September to May. I have not heard anybody else to say
that this is something which make winter damages.

Like potato, it is in theory poisonous to human(sonalium), but real life shows that human stands that poison.

If you feed hives too late, it is too late. You have a long time to do that, why don't you do that.

When it is time to enlarge hive, you must do that. Otherwise you loose your foragers in swarming. Whose fault is that.
It is same in all farming. You must act in time.







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Robo
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« Reply #55 on: October 08, 2009, 10:00:35 AM »

Finski,

You talk apples to oranges.   My comment on HMF was for high fructose corn syrup, not sugar syrup.
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Finski
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« Reply #56 on: October 08, 2009, 10:12:11 AM »

Finski,

You talk apples to oranges.   My comment on HMF was for high fructose corn syrup, not sugar syrup.

Understanding goes better and better.
Some guys here have feeded molasses, and all hives have died.

Yes, to feed hives is one of the most difficult thing in  beekeeping. I just wonder how.
At least it has become worse during last 5 years.

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Dubhe
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« Reply #57 on: October 08, 2009, 01:11:23 PM »

Ok, enough is enough.  I've always enjoyed Fin's contributions, but I've always taken them for what they were worth.  The truth is that he's from Finland about as much as I'm from Slovakia.  Some of his posts are in broken English and some show a better command of language than William Safire.  HE'S MESSING WITH YOU ALL.  Get it?  Finski is probably a duplicate user name for another board member who enjoys goofing with us all.

Mess away Fin, I'm enjoying the show.
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kathyp
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« Reply #58 on: October 08, 2009, 01:24:57 PM »

http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,23232.0.html
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Robo
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« Reply #59 on: October 08, 2009, 02:05:32 PM »

HE'S MESSING WITH YOU ALL.  Get it?  Finski is probably a duplicate user name for another board member who enjoys goofing with us all.

His IP info

inetnum:         80.222.0.0 - 80.223.255.255
netname:         SONERA-FINLAND-BBNET
descr:           Broadband access pool
descr:           TeliaSonera Finland Oyj
 

So who is being fooled?Huh
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"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison


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