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Author Topic: Sugar vs Fondant  (Read 13241 times)

Offline Finski

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Re: Sugar vs Fondant
« Reply #20 on: October 06, 2009, 04:06:11 PM »
. But what we do not do in Finland is that we do not feed syrup to bees in summer.
Bees get they food from nature.
.
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Offline kathyp

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Re: Sugar vs Fondant
« Reply #21 on: October 06, 2009, 04:19:03 PM »
i don't get even dandelion bloom until April.

finskis wintering advice has been very helpful to many of us.  perhaps something is lost in translation, or you have not had enough conversations with him to read what he writes in the spirit it is intended.

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline BeeHopper

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Re: Sugar vs Fondant
« Reply #22 on: October 06, 2009, 04:19:21 PM »
Without getting into the pissing match, I use Fondant as BjornBee does with great success ( Thanks BjornBee ) I buy from a bakery supply in Lancaster, Pa., at 35.50 per 50 lbs., it sure beats making it. Again, it is a matter of preference. The prices are sure to go up as sugar commodities have risen this month.  :)


Offline BjornBee

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Re: Sugar vs Fondant
« Reply #23 on: October 06, 2009, 04:26:48 PM »
Finski,
The original question was about feeding not just going into winter, but feeding though it.

And before you pull out your next knee jerk reaction response, such as noting how many years you have kept bees, how about slowing down and actually reading what others are saying.

My comment about moisture with fondant was that of comparing it to syrup feeding, which is a huge problem for many beekeepers. Perhaps NOT in Finland, as you have already stated that all beekeepers feed sugar.

Most here mix up either 2/1 or 1.1 syrup. That would be either 33% or 50% moisture "base". It's not about dragging out your favorite equation and how you can suggest 9 pounds of water for 25 of feed. It is recognizing that feeding syrup many times means having bees storing it in open cells. Unlike honey or solid based feeds (sugar or fondant) the moisture alone from frames of open syrup, injects a serious amount of moisture into the hive, WITHOUT even getting to what the bees are putting off.

I have seen many dead hives after a beekeeper has fed all winter long and the syrup sits in open frames injecting moisture into the hive. Your talking about apples, while others are talking about oranges. Difference is, you keep attacking others for suggesting things contrary to what you are saying.

So save me your denigrating "your clever but not enough". I'm sure others are about feeling the same way of how you speak.
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Offline BjornBee

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Re: Sugar vs Fondant
« Reply #24 on: October 06, 2009, 04:31:32 PM »
i don't get even dandelion bloom until April.

finskis wintering advice has been very helpful to many of us.  perhaps something is lost in translation, or you have not had enough conversations with him to read what he writes in the spirit it is intended.



Cathy,
I think his writing is very clear.
It starts as passing knowledge and speaking of one's experiences.
Then it goes into denigrating others who are not on the same page.
Then it goes into how many years one has bees. (a classic way to belittle others in conversation)
Then it goes just into attack mode and claiming others are not clever enough as he keep firing away.

Way too much for a simple "translation" slip of thr tongue.

Sorry Cathy....I don't buy it..... ;)

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Offline BjornBee

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Re: Sugar vs Fondant
« Reply #25 on: October 06, 2009, 04:33:09 PM »
Without getting into the pissing match, I use Fondant as BjornBee does with great success ( Thanks BjornBee ) I buy from a bakery supply in Lancaster, Pa., at 35.50 per 50 lbs., it sure beats making it. Again, it is a matter of preference. The prices are sure to go up as sugar commodities have risen this month.  :)


Thanks beehopper,
Last batch was 36.10 and I think it will go up next week also.  :-P
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Offline BeeHopper

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Re: Sugar vs Fondant
« Reply #26 on: October 06, 2009, 04:45:57 PM »
Without getting into the pissing match, I use Fondant as BjornBee does with great success ( Thanks BjornBee ) I buy from a bakery supply in Lancaster, Pa., at 35.50 per 50 lbs., it sure beats making it. Again, it is a matter of preference. The prices are sure to go up as sugar commodities have risen this month.  :)


Thanks beehopper,
Last batch was 36.10 and I think it will go up next week also.  :-P



 Donna Q. gave me the 35.50 price last monday (the 28th ) when our group picked up 10 cases, still not a bad price at 36.10  :-\

Offline BjornBee

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Re: Sugar vs Fondant
« Reply #27 on: October 06, 2009, 05:10:20 PM »
Without getting into the pissing match, I use Fondant as BjornBee does with great success ( Thanks BjornBee ) I buy from a bakery supply in Lancaster, Pa., at 35.50 per 50 lbs., it sure beats making it. Again, it is a matter of preference. The prices are sure to go up as sugar commodities have risen this month.  :)


Thanks beehopper,
Last batch was 36.10 and I think it will go up next week also.  :-P



 Donna Q. gave me the 35.50 price last monday (the 28th ) when our group picked up 10 cases, still not a bad price at 36.10  :-\


Ok, fair enough.....36.10 dropped off in my driveway.... :-D
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Offline jclark96

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Re: Sugar vs Fondant
« Reply #28 on: October 06, 2009, 05:18:36 PM »
I have not decide what I am going to do this year, probably fondant. I am in coastal NC, I am not sure how cold or for how long. My one hive is very light.
I think there is a fundamental error in thinking that a long cold winter is harder to prepare for. Why do winter bees live alot longer than summer bees? When all your bees are doing for months on end is clustering, they use only what they need to maintain warmth. I had bees in Alabama that never had a break in the brood cycle, raised brood all winter long, mandating a warmer hive. There have also been times when it would warm up here, the bees would start raising brood, then it would cool off and kill all of the brood, requiring the bees to clean out the hive in winter. I don't think one size fits all.

Offline psbeekeeper

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Re: Sugar vs Fondant
« Reply #29 on: October 06, 2009, 05:38:28 PM »
Do you know if the bakery place in Lancaster has a website?  (stupid question).

Offline BjornBee

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Re: Sugar vs Fondant
« Reply #30 on: October 06, 2009, 05:49:10 PM »
Do you know if the bakery place in Lancaster has a website?  (stupid question).

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Offline Sparky

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Re: Sugar vs Fondant
« Reply #31 on: October 06, 2009, 09:12:39 PM »
BjornBee. when you buy the fondant will it have any flavorings that should be avoided. Is the vanilla OK ?

Offline BjornBee

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Re: Sugar vs Fondant
« Reply #32 on: October 06, 2009, 09:37:48 PM »
sparky,
I do know that "fondant" comes in many forms and with varying ingredients. The stuff I get is from Dawn Foods, and has three ingredients...sugar, HFCS, and water. Nothing else.

I would think anything else added would not be good for bees going through winter.
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Offline bud1

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Re: Sugar vs Fondant
« Reply #33 on: October 06, 2009, 10:24:50 PM »
Finsky; sure glad to see you back on it has always been a plasure to read your post and have acess to your knowledge. and dont pay any attention to those who are always trying to prove something that if it is not their way then it is wrong.
to bee or not to bee

Offline Finski

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Re: Sugar vs Fondant
« Reply #34 on: October 07, 2009, 12:44:54 AM »
Finsky; sure glad to see you back on it has always been a plasure to read your post and have acess to your knowledge. and dont pay any attention to those who are always trying to prove something that if it is not their way then it is wrong.

To be in this forum is waste of time. You  stories  have not changed for 5 years.
Many of you have too easy climate to play tricky games.
.
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Offline lenape13

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Re: Sugar vs Fondant
« Reply #35 on: October 07, 2009, 02:13:01 AM »
I, for one, do not find this forum to be a waste of time. 

Offline BjornBee

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Re: Sugar vs Fondant
« Reply #36 on: October 07, 2009, 07:45:44 AM »
I, for one, do not find this forum to be a waste of time.  

Lenape,
Translation is the key..... ;)

As Cathy said "perhaps something is lost in translation, or you have not had enough conversations with him to read what he writes in the spirit it is intended."

So lets look at the comment ....."To be in this forum is waste of time. You  stories  have not changed for 5 years.
Many of you have too easy climate to play tricky games."

Now for the translation...... Well Friends, lets agree to disagree. I acknowledge that you have much different climate than I do. And while I have heard the same stories for 5 years now, many new faces are reading this for the first time, perhaps making it far less than the waste of time I feel rehashing the same conversation over and over. While I am a professional beekeeper with 37 years of experience under my belt, many of you keep bees in only a "hobbyist" situation in warmer climates than I, allowing you to play tricky games, to which I do not have that luxury. May peace be with all of you, and remember "It is never too late to listen, learn, and take part in conversations with those with far less experienced than yourself". May those trying new techniques learn along the way, and be willing to pass on not just the success, but the failures also. Many changes and better ways will come about in the years to follow, as there is no way I have learned all there is about the bees. P.S....I enjoyed the conversation with BjornBee, as he really seems like a nice guy. Cheers!

That's the way I read it..... :roll:
« Last Edit: October 07, 2009, 08:35:12 AM by BjornBee »
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Offline Finski

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Re: Sugar vs Fondant
« Reply #37 on: October 07, 2009, 09:20:15 AM »
[ "It is never too late to listen, learn, and take part in conversations with those with far less experienced than yourself".

My advice: If some do not need advice, it is same even if angels tell it. Waste of time.

Wide country, wide tolerances.
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Offline BjornBee

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Re: Sugar vs Fondant
« Reply #38 on: October 07, 2009, 10:10:39 AM »
[ "It is never too late to listen, learn, and take part in conversations with those with far less experienced than yourself".

My advice: If some do not need advice, it is same even if angels tell it. Waste of time.

Wide country, wide tolerances.

Waste of time???

Knowing that hundreds of people will read this forum, then it may be best to be mature enough to realize that some will take the advice, some will not. Advice is best given with NO expectations of acceptance on anyone's part. To give advice, then call everyone idiots because they do not take it, is very wrong. Are you serious in thinking giving advice is a waste of time, if some do not need it? It is not an "all or nothing" thing in giving advice. Heck....maybe even YOU with your 47 years experience could learn something by such discussions, if you were willing to stop bashing everyone.

Wide country, wide tolerances???

What country are you talking about now? Is it the same country you suggested that most beekeepers were idiots with comments such as this tidbit given back on page one.....

"When I have been in US and British bee forum, members have mostly totally wrong knowledge about heat economy of hive and about moisture control."

It is so nice for you to come here, judge, belittle, and make innuendos on such grand scales.



Sorry Lenape...This was the best I could do.... :roll:

I'll be an "angel" now, and this will be my last post on this thread. I know when a good discussion has run it's course...... :-D
« Last Edit: October 07, 2009, 10:58:21 AM by BjornBee »
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Offline kathyp

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Re: Sugar vs Fondant
« Reply #39 on: October 07, 2009, 11:00:06 AM »
bjornbee, if you ever met finski i think you two would be good friends.  you seem to be very much alike!
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville