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Author Topic: Small bees and lg, bees  (Read 4305 times)
Joelel
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« Reply #40 on: September 25, 2009, 05:19:24 PM »


 If anyone don't want to raise the best bees or fly the best airplane,be my guest.

I don't think ANYONE is suggesting they WANT raise less than the best. Perhaps you are missing some interesting points. The race that Brother Adam spoke about being great fliers, was a particular type bee that happened to fly far and was small. You can not assume that all small bees will perform the same based on mere "association" of also being small. The same can be said about excluding larger bees based on this one specification. It takes research, not 100 year old quotes concerning a race of bee that is now extinct. That is not proof of anything. That is my point.



Not all,maybe only the buckfast.
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Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation
Joelel
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« Reply #41 on: September 25, 2009, 06:32:01 PM »

if you had wings and could fly, do you think you could fly just as far if you weighed 30-50% more?

deknow

Yes,if i had the right motor and wings.

and what if you had the right wings, but not the right motor?

on this other stuff:

imho, it's unreasonable to start or participate in a public forum discussion and expect to be able to dictate what other people say, or how they respond.  if you want a one on one conversation, pm or email is better.  

there are a lot of people in on this conversation, all with different perspectives, levels of knowledge, and understanding of what is generally meant by "small bee".

i think i understand that you want to know if (absent the influence of foundation) do strains of bees that run smaller or larger do better.  

i'm willing to bet that what your son read (and you started this thread with) was in regards to small cell, not small races.  i also have no idea your level of knowledge, but am puzzled by your attitude that seems to indicate that you know a lot, but your lack of understanding of the statement your son made makes it appear (at least from here) that you don't really understand the question you are asking. I mean no disrespect or insult by this...it's just how things look from here.  the internet is rife with discussions and claims about small cell bees....very little about small races of bees.

in any case, if we are looking at different races to decide if those that run smaller or those that do larger run better, it depends greatly on location, environment, lattitude, and altitude.  if what you want to do is compare races, why does size factor into this at all?

Yes,with glider wings and a smaller motor,I could go fare. The right genetics is the key. Every feature of all creation is in the genetics.

 Your right on this statement.( i think i understand that you want to know if (absent the influence of foundation) do strains of bees that run smaller or larger do better.)

About this statement, It's about the size of bees,not the cells.I do understand my question. (i'm willing to bet that what your son read (and you started this thread with) was in regards to small cell, not small races.  i also have no idea your level of knowledge, but am puzzled by your attitude that seems to indicate that you know a lot, but your lack of understanding of the statement your son made makes it appear (at least from here) that you don't really understand the question you are asking.  i mean no disrespect or insult by this...it's just how things look from here.  the internet is rife with discussions and claims about small cell bees....very little about small races of bees.)

I am willing to talk one on one. I may E-mail you.

About this statement,I believe some bees can perform better and run better if all are in the same environment. All genetics in bees make up different features and abulites(in any case, if we are looking at different races to decide if those that run smaller or those that do larger run better, it depends greatly on location, enviornment, lattitude, and altitude.  if what you want to do is compare races, why does size factor into this at all?)
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Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation
tig
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« Reply #42 on: September 25, 2009, 06:35:24 PM »

i would say the whole purpose of this forum was to exchange ideas, experiences, opinions and to get to know other beekeepers.  while majority of us here take care of apis mellifera, we come from different locations and countries and what may work in one location may not work in another location due to a lot of different factors such as weather, predators, etc.  that has been the beauty of this forum....the diversity of beekeepers.

when i first started beekeeping i was told, "if you ask one question from 10 beekeepers, expect at least 11 different answers."  this has been proven right time and again, which is why we should all give the proper respect to other's opinions.
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deknow
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« Reply #43 on: September 25, 2009, 07:03:41 PM »

Quote
About this statement, It's about the size of bees,not the cells.

do you understand that the size of the cell in large part determines the size of the bee?  and when the size of the bee is changed in this way, it throws the body weight out of balance in relation to the mass of flight muscles?  and that the enlarging of the cell size to enlarge the size of the bee was done intentionally, and is well documented?

the reason that we are talking about small bees and large bees is because of this change in the size of foundation, not because some people are using bees of X race that are small, and some are using Y race that are large.  this is not a genetic difference, it is a morphological difference based on the size cell the bee is raised in (from being in a larger space and/or from having more food put in the cell by the nurse bees).

i don't mean to beat a dead horse here....but you keep asking questions and making statements that seem (to me) to indicate that you don't understand this.

deknow
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Joelel
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« Reply #44 on: September 25, 2009, 07:47:29 PM »

Quote
About this statement, It's about the size of bees,not the cells.

do you understand that the size of the cell in large part determines the size of the bee?  and when the size of the bee is changed in this way, it throws the body weight out of balance in relation to the mass of flight muscles?  and that the enlarging of the cell size to enlarge the size of the bee was done intentionally, and is well documented?

the reason that we are talking about small bees and large bees is because of this change in the size of foundation, not because some people are using bees of X race that are small, and some are using Y race that are large.  this is not a genetic difference, it is a morphological difference based on the size cell the bee is raised in (from being in a larger space and/or from having more food put in the cell by the nurse bees).

i don't mean to beat a dead horse here....but you keep asking questions and making statements that seem (to me) to indicate that you don't understand this.

deknow

Yes,I understand that if man puts lg. bees in small cells it could mess up the total structure of the bee but I ask a simple question,does small bees fly farther then Lg. bees.I guess I should have ask,do some bees fly farther then others,that would leave out the size and cell factor. There are small and Lg. bees by nature or creation and cross breeding, this is the bees i'm talking about. I understand if man lets bees build their natural size cells instead of putting them on cell sized foundations,they most likely will do better. The best thing is to let all bees build their own size of cells.

So,my question is,do some natural breed of bees or crossed bees fly farther to collect nectar and pollen ? I believe they do,do you ?
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Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation
heaflaw
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« Reply #45 on: September 25, 2009, 11:00:35 PM »


Through all the talk on this thread, this is what it all boils down to:

"mike, i don't think you are "wrong" for keeping bees without mite treatments on LC comb.  as i think i've said to you before, the common denominator of those not using treatments is that they stopped treating, and didn't start again with the appearance of a mite or 2, or the loss of even significant losses."

-Deknow
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #46 on: September 26, 2009, 04:53:24 PM »

I have never found it necessary to agree with everything someone did, taught, said, or believed to learn from them or to share what I learned from them.  The assumption that because I, or anyone else, quotes Brother Adam, or Jay Smith, or Dee Lusby, or Jim Fischer or G.M. Doolittle, or C.C. Miller (all of whom I have been known to quote) means I am in complete agreement with them on every point is quite incorrect, unfounded and frankly absurd.  I suggest that such leaps of conclusion should be avoided if misunderstandings are to be prevented.
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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
Joelel
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« Reply #47 on: September 27, 2009, 11:21:04 AM »

I have never found it necessary to agree with everything someone did, taught, said, or believed to learn from them or to share what I learned from them.  The assumption that because I, or anyone else, quotes Brother Adam, or Jay Smith, or Dee Lusby, or Jim Fischer or G.M. Doolittle, or C.C. Miller (all of whom I have been known to quote) means I am in complete agreement with them on every point is quite incorrect, unfounded and frankly absurd.  I suggest that such leaps of conclusion should be avoided if misunderstandings are to be prevented.



Amen Brother
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Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation
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