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Author Topic: shb and honey  (Read 2220 times)
jsmob
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« on: October 03, 2009, 03:57:11 PM »

I have a hive that is dead. No eggs. No Queen. Some capped brood. Very few uncapped brood. Very few workers. Frames are clear and unslimy. Saw maybe 2 dozen beetles and one maggot. I am thinking the beetles drove the bees out.
There is a full super of honey sitting on this hive. It does not look like it has any damage done to it.
What would be a good way to go about finding out if this honey can be saved? How long does it take for it to go bad if the beetles got in it? Can I keep it as comb honey, or should I extract it?
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sc-bee
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« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2009, 09:05:50 AM »

If an shb problem originally, I think you would see more shb and larvae. The shb may be a secondary problem and arriving after the colony collapsed to do their deed. If collapse from shb it usually looks like this:



Fermented honey and larvae. I don't think the amount of shb you mentioned above drove the bees out. At least not in my experience with shb. Maybe you just had a queenless/bad queen issue or an abscond for another reason.

If you indeed saw an shb larvae, it won't take long to reach this point. I would freeze the frames to feed back to another colony if not fermented ---- as long as you feel you don't have any other disease issue with the colony. Freezing will kill wax moth and/or shb.

If I suspected collapse from pest or other disease issues, I would not extract the honey for human consumption. If disease or pest not the issue-- extract ---  this is really a  have to be there personal call.

As said above if shb larvae are the problem, you don't have long to decide or you will end up with the mess in the picture posted.

« Last Edit: October 05, 2009, 09:17:07 AM by sc-bee » Logged

John 3:16
asprince
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« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2009, 09:45:55 AM »

Good advice from sc-bee. I agree, but stress, freeze all frames immediately.


Steve
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MustbeeNuts
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« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2009, 04:21:19 PM »

ditto!! see above Smiley
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Animator
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« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2009, 05:32:55 PM »

I lose sleep worrying about SHB.  I haven't seen larvae yet, just the beetles.   I kill eveyone I see.  Mentioned SHB at the local bee club.  Everyone moaned.  Seems like everyone I know has a problem with them.   We have to find people that DONT have SHB issues (in the south) and look at what they are doing. 

Good luck.   Sorry to hear about your problems. 
Mike
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David LaFerney
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« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2009, 06:54:59 PM »

I lose sleep worrying about SHB.  I haven't seen larvae yet, just the beetles.   I kill eveyone I see.  Mentioned SHB at the local bee club.  Everyone moaned.  Seems like everyone I know has a problem with them.   We have to find people that DONT have SHB issues (in the south) and look at what they are doing. 

Good luck.   Sorry to hear about your problems. 
Mike


I didn't see any larvae either - until I made and installed oil traps, then I saw them drowned in oil.  I think SHB call for multi-pronged pro-active strategies - oil traps, cardboard traps, smaller single entrances, smaller hive volumes, no little cracks or holes for them to get in, no burr comb for them to hide in, different honey harvesting habits - whatever we can come up with before they are a problem. 

BTW try this - keep a bunch of cardboard squares in a coffee can, run a piece of wire through the corrugations to act as a long handle. Stick it in the hive on the bottom board through the entrance leaving the wire handle sticking out.  When you visit the hive it only takes a few seconds to change the cardboard, and drop the infested one into another can full of oil.

Also, after you fry that turkey next month, you might want to keep the oil.
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"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Samuel Clemens

Putting the "ape" in apiary since 2009.
jsmob
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« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2009, 03:49:27 PM »

Thank you for the help. Beeks around hear say that the shb has not been found to cause alot of damage to the hives. The hive was put under a big Oak in a friends yard and the bees never did well. I will try again this spring and this time place it in the direct sun light.
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Lone
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« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2009, 08:35:05 PM »

Hello Jsmob,

I haven't found out yet what sort of conditions are conducive to SHB, but they seemed to increase after wet weather and so forth.  If you are CA I assume your weather is fairly warm, like here.  I started off with the hives in shade and facing the wrong direction.  They didn't do very well.  I found out we have to face the hives east in Australia (since you are on the bottom side of the world, maybe you have to face west?), and though we still have a roof over the hives, we adjust the amount of time they are exposed to sunlight depending on the time of year.  At the moment, they are getting sun till about 10-11 am.

Lone
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David LaFerney
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« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2009, 09:51:44 PM »

since you are on the bottom side of the world...

Not on our maps we aren't!
 Wink
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"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Samuel Clemens

Putting the "ape" in apiary since 2009.
Lone
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« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2009, 03:47:48 AM »

Quote
Not on our maps we aren't!
 

How do your bees crawl upside-down on the lid, then??

Lone I dunno
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jsmob
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« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2009, 01:50:21 PM »

 
Quote
How do your bees crawl upside-down on the lid, then??

Lone 
 

I saw some bees flying upside down this spring in an almond orchard. I asked the beek how he got the bees to do that. He said that them came from Australia that way. evil
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sas_marine@hotmail.com
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« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2009, 01:55:39 AM »

hey, when the larvae do end up in oil/ving traps, it doesnt kill them, once i had so many in one trap i left it on the cement for the ants to devour, i came back the next day and they were still trying to make a run for it, that was larvae 4 days in oil,, they are tougher than the adults,, i got some really really good advise today from a pro,, he said if you have lots of shb in your hive, oil traps wont be enough for a quick clean up, he suggest to you cut 6 good size peices of cardboard to completely cover the top of your (HONEY) frames and use a seringe to insert a few ml of pure vinager,, leave it for half a day,, (no more) and then remove the peices STRESS>dont tip them on their sides, keep em vertical, and immediatly soak them in either oil or diesel or bicarbasoda/water, after u have done this with your honey super, drive the bees down, then remove your super for a few hours and do the same with your brood frames.. he told me that in one box using this method, he cleaned out over 400 adult beetles, he said he froze the frames and kept them for winter stores (which is quite smart really) and replaced with 9 stickies the following day,, and now the level of infection is extremely minimal.. i havent tried this yet but i will be doing so this coming weekend, ill let you know my results, but this guy knows his stuff and really is quite intellegant, so yer, try that i think, no chemicals, no materials, effective clean up Tongue
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JWPick
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« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2009, 11:14:24 AM »

In regards to the increase of SHB and wet weather, we were told it is due to larvae being through with pupating, or something like that. When the larvae are hatched in the hive, or whereever the eggs are laid, they begin to crawl to the entrance of the hive in order to drop to the ground and then begin to dig a hole to begin their pupate process. They search for ground (soil) that has moisture which is part of the process. They wait for rain which is when they come out of the ground. They prefer moist and shaded areas, such as a wooded, tree covered area, even areas around ponds or streams, which is why we have been told to start placing hives in the full sun. The SHB, as well as the varroa mite, do not like these conditions, which helps as part of an IPM practice.

Some of the speakers at our Beek meeting mentioned these variables and also noted that there was no big significance in brrod or honey production when hives were placed in the full sun. Their suggestions were to also include as many IPM practices as possible in order to disrupt the SHB life cycle.

Hope this helps!
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