beecanbee
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« on: September 02, 2009, 03:18:32 PM » |
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With mellifera, can you tell if a queen is in the swarm by the looks of the clump? With cerana, if the swarm is roughly symmetrical in shape and teardrop in appearance, you have a queen. If there is no queen, the swarm will be oddly shaped, possibly elongated, or with ribs, etc. Does swarm shape tell you anything about a mellifera swarm?
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Paul “I come from a state that raises corn and cotton and cockleburs and Democrats, and frothy eloquence neither convinces nor satisfies me. I am from Missouri. You have got to show me." Duncan Vandiver A boy can do half the work of a man, but two boys do less, and three boys get nothing done at all.  (False) Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. - Samuel Johnson |
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David LaFerney
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« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2009, 08:57:12 PM » |
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With mellifera, can you tell if a queen is in the swarm by the looks of the clump? With cerana, if the swarm is roughly symmetrical in shape and teardrop in appearance, you have a queen. If there is no queen, the swarm will be oddly shaped, possibly elongated, or with ribs, etc. Does swarm shape tell you anything about a mellifera swarm?
Why would they swarm without a queen? To reduce the population of the parent hive by commiting mass suicide? |
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"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Samuel Clemens
Putting the "ape" in apiary since 2009.
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kathyp
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« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2009, 09:09:30 PM » |
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i don't know that i have ever found one without a queen, but i sure have found them with virgin queens, and they don't always make it. i have found that those swarms with virgins have a much higher number of drones with them.
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"Nay, it [this constitution of government] must perish, if there be not that vital spirit in the people, which alone can nourish, sustain, and direct all its movements. It is in vain, that statesmen shall form plans of government, in which the beauty and harmony of a republic shall be embodied in visible order, shall be built up on solid substructions, and adorned by every useful ornament, if the inhabitants suffer the silent power of time to dilapidate its walls, or crumble its massy supporters into dust; if the assaults from without are never resisted, and the rottenness and mining from within are never guarded against. Who can preserve the rights and liberties of the people, when they shall be abandoned by themselves? Who shall keep watch in the temple, when the watchmen sleep at their posts? Who shall call upon the people to redeem their possessions, and revive the republic, when their own hands have deliberately and corruptly surrendered them to the oppressor, and have built the prisons, or dug the graves of their own friends?
– Justice Joseph Story, "Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States," Volume II, Chapter XIII: Mode of Passing Laws, Sections 900-901, pp. 364 (1833)
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beecanbee
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« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2009, 02:10:03 AM » |
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Why would they swarm without a queen? Cerana frequently abscond without the queen. If the queen died and wax moths took over - they abscond and gather into what may look like a swarm, but an ill-shapen one and of no value. If I upset them thru inspection or harvesting they may swarm (with the queen, along with nurse bees staying behind) - but the clump will be ill-shapen. However, if it is nicely shaped - I must try to recapture them, since it contains the queen. If ill-shapen, I don't bother. The question.... with mellifera can you tell anything about the queen from the appearance of the swarm? |
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Paul “I come from a state that raises corn and cotton and cockleburs and Democrats, and frothy eloquence neither convinces nor satisfies me. I am from Missouri. You have got to show me." Duncan Vandiver A boy can do half the work of a man, but two boys do less, and three boys get nothing done at all. (False) Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. - Samuel Johnson |
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beecanbee
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« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2009, 02:30:04 AM » |
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i don't know that i have ever found one without a queen Maybe this is the answer to my question... if mellifera generally do not abscond... Maybe any swarm you come across can be assumed to be queen-right? |
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Paul “I come from a state that raises corn and cotton and cockleburs and Democrats, and frothy eloquence neither convinces nor satisfies me. I am from Missouri. You have got to show me." Duncan Vandiver A boy can do half the work of a man, but two boys do less, and three boys get nothing done at all. (False) Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. - Samuel Johnson |
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bee-nuts
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« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2009, 02:49:21 AM » |
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It sounds to me like two different behavior patterns from two different races of bee. As far as I know millifeera will not swarm/abscond because they are queenless. They will abscond if conditions are poor, but I dont think they will without a queen. A hive does sound different when queen-less though.
Maybe someone else knows different.
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The moment a person forms a theory, his imagination sees in every object only the traits which favor that theory
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bee-nuts
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« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2009, 02:53:54 AM » |
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beecanbee
How do you house your bees? Do you use langstroth or similar hives or something completely different.
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The moment a person forms a theory, his imagination sees in every object only the traits which favor that theory
Thomas Jefferson
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beecanbee
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« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2009, 04:06:19 AM » |
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beecanbee
How do you house your bees? Do you use langstroth or similar hives or something completely different.
I am using Langs for the mellifera - but upright boxes (known as AYs) for the cerana. The AY is like a Lang brood box stood on its side - that is, tall and narrow, ten frame. I have not yet encountered a mellifera swarm - hence my questions, as I was basing it against my experience with cerana. I think as bee-nuts said - two different behaviour patters. Hence I am unlikely to encounter a queenless mellifera swarm (but do so regularly with cerana). |
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Paul “I come from a state that raises corn and cotton and cockleburs and Democrats, and frothy eloquence neither convinces nor satisfies me. I am from Missouri. You have got to show me." Duncan Vandiver A boy can do half the work of a man, but two boys do less, and three boys get nothing done at all. (False) Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. - Samuel Johnson |
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