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Author Topic: I thought this theory had already been debunked. . .  (Read 2155 times)

Offline David Stokely

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I thought this theory had already been debunked. . .
« on: August 31, 2009, 05:13:24 PM »
http://www.ptinews.com/news/256707_Mobile-towers-threatening-honey-bees-in-Kerala

I was surprised to read this article.  I had heard something about this a few years ago.  I thought this was proven not to be the case. . .this would be a rather simple experiment, of putting a cell phone next to a hive if you had a hive of bees to spare. . . .

 :?
« Last Edit: August 31, 2009, 08:14:25 PM by David Stokely »

Online kathyp

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Re: I thought this theory had already been debunked. . .
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2009, 07:15:39 PM »
i saw that too.  without knowing more about what he did, there is no way to know if the cell phone had anything to do with it.  and just having something happen once, does not a theory prove.

i think there were some better studies done either here or in europe.  we had posts about it on here a long time ago.
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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Offline iddee

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Re: I thought this theory had already been debunked. . .
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2009, 07:44:28 PM »
Hey, I drove home drunk one time. Made it safely.

Does that mean I am a safe drunk driver and never have to worry about it again. Thanks, that's good to know.

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Offline David Stokely

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Re: I thought this theory had already been debunked. . .
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2009, 08:24:20 PM »
The way I read it, the article is talking primarily about the cell phone towers as being the problem.  I always have my cell phone on me when I work my bees and they're still there, so I in my case anyway a cell phone periodically being in the vicinity of the hive doesn't seem to be the problem, but cell phone towers are literally everywhere.  Churches are renting out their steeples for cell phone transmission towers, etc. etc. etc. . . .

The refuting of cell phone RF transmission as being the primary cause of CCD would be if CCD were also occurring in places where there is no cell phone service and I do believe that is the case.  It's just hard for me to imagine cell phone transmission having this impact on bees.  I only have two hives and skeptical as I am, I don't have the guts to leave my cell phone in my hive for a week to prove it one way or another.  I would be heartbroken if they all took off and I lost my hive.

Offline beecanbee

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Re: I thought this theory had already been debunked. . .
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2009, 08:56:20 PM »
The refuting of cell phone RF transmission as being the primary cause of CCD would be if ...

Maybe a definitive test would be to obtain permission to place hives at or near these towers to see if they do as well as those hives a mile or so away.  I had a hive about 100feet from a tower and it absconded - but I gave up the location due to distance and mountain elevation (too cold for me) instead of repopulating it.  So I am interested in further information, but remain a skeptic.

Unfortunately the article does not indicate where his study was published.
Paul

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Offline bassman1977

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Re: I thought this theory had already been debunked. . .
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2009, 09:20:12 PM »
I wonder how close the hives are.  There is a cell tower about 1/4 mile from me.  I think this is a bunch of BS personally.
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Offline fish_stix

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Re: I thought this theory had already been debunked. . .
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2009, 09:35:00 PM »
I have 50 hives near a cell tower. Doesn't seem to bother the bees but I always wear my aluminum foil hat under my veil to protect myself! Stops those annoying messages from Kubik- 5-Boorg too!

Offline hardwood

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Re: I thought this theory had already been debunked. . .
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2009, 09:45:07 PM »
Beecanbee, I think the article originated in India. I've seen several others from India of late.

In ever take my cell phone with me to work the bees...just another thing to lose in the grass as far as I'm concerned and who wants to be bothered with a call then anyway? If I get in trouble I just send smoke signals :-D

Scott
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Offline Damonh

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Re: I thought this theory had already been debunked. . .
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2009, 09:28:47 AM »
I have bees at the base of a cell tower. The last time I looked they all seamed happy.

Offline BeeHopper

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Re: I thought this theory had already been debunked. . .
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2009, 09:52:35 AM »
I suppose the Zoologist ought to check the air, soil and water for severe chemical contamination, India is notoriously lax on their environmental laws let alone having any.  :-\

Online kathyp

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Re: I thought this theory had already been debunked. . .
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2009, 10:15:55 AM »
another possibility?  there is something different about their towers?
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline MacfromNS

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Re: I thought this theory had already been debunked. . .
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2009, 10:20:54 AM »
Well i hope you guys are right because they are putting a cell tower up 1/4 mile away from me. But now I can blame everything on them. 8-)
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Offline Bee-Bop

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Re: I thought this theory had already been debunked. . .
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2009, 11:29:06 AM »
If you have a Pacemaker, the literature cautions not to have a cell phone on and carry in your shirt pocket, also I-pods I understand with their speakers should not be turned on and carried in your shirt pocket !

Think Pacemaker manufactures know anything ?

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Offline bassman1977

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Re: I thought this theory had already been debunked. . .
« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2009, 12:36:17 AM »
Quote
If you have a Pacemaker, the literature cautions not to have a cell phone on and carry in your shirt pocket, also I-pods I understand with their speakers should not be turned on and carried in your shirt pocket !

Think Pacemaker manufactures know anything ?

There are magnets in the speakers.  That's probably the concern.
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Re: I thought this theory had already been debunked. . .
« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2009, 08:41:19 AM »
if you poke around, there are several articles on this (doubtessly they all were prepared from the same article or press release).

he claimed that a mobile device placed 30 meters from a hive would drive the bees away within 10 days.  we have 3 cell phones in our bedroom which is less than 30 meters from about 18 colones.

deknow

Offline David Stokely

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Re: I thought this theory had already been debunked. . .
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2009, 09:16:06 AM »
Well that is crazy.  My hive is in my back yard, well less than 30 meters from a variety of cellphones, etc., but again is there a possibility that could it be the differences between Indian cell phones and U.S. phones?  Sometime back I read where the Cadillac on board navigation/communication system was the only functioning cellphone type communication going on after hurricane Katrina.  I don't remember the exact figures, but the normal cell phone might put out 1 or 2 watts of radio signal power and the Cadillac system used 5 or 6 watts. . . something like that.

Could it be that the Indian towers maybe more widely separated than in other areas and therefore the cell phones might use greater transmitting power?  I don't know.  This guy is making some pretty strong and definite claims that are surely testable and I would think if he thought anything of his scientific reputation that he would have at least some foundation for what he is saying. . .

:roll:

Offline alflyguy

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Re: I thought this theory had already been debunked. . .
« Reply #16 on: September 02, 2009, 02:34:23 PM »
India uses GSM 900/1800 format so there is no difference in the RF being transmitted. I don't have any bees near a tower but there are several cell phones within a few meters of my hives on most days. I don't believe that it creates any problems.

Offline harvey

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Re: I thought this theory had already been debunked. . .
« Reply #17 on: September 02, 2009, 11:14:46 PM »
Personally I think the bee's like dial up,  this is or was proven to me when they decided to settle into one of the electrical comunication boxes where all the phone wires are and the phone company had a mess getting are service right.  They had to clean comb and all out of their box!

Offline bee-nuts

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Re: I thought this theory had already been debunked. . .
« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2009, 05:22:45 AM »
If cellular towers affected honeybees we would have know about it long before now.  Old bag cell phones used 3 watts.  Now cell phones use .6 watts.  Depending on what cell phone company you use you can get two to three watt amplifiers to aid in reception.  Tv stations used much greater power before going digital.  I do not know what power they use now.  Im sure commercial beekeepers have had hives under all these towers before.  Im sure they would have put two and two together along time ago when all there bees disappeared.
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Offline Sean Kelly

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Re: I thought this theory had already been debunked. . .
« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2009, 12:17:11 PM »
Okay, here's my opinion as a ham radio operator.  RF is the same, no matter the frequency.  The frequency and power output basically determines the amount of RF exposure.  There have been HF/VHF/UHF and microwave signals being transmitted constantly since the invention of radio a 100 years ago.  If bees are affected by radio frequency emissions, then we would have seen bees dropping dead when Marconi first transmitted the letter "S" across the Atlantic.  A cell phone is nothing more than a fancy walkie-talkie that lets you play Pac Man.
Here in the Seattle-Tacoma area there are THOUSANDS of radio signals constantly being transmitted from TV towers, AM radio, FM radio, business band, air traffic control, railroad, ham radio, shortwave, CB radio, marine traffic, etc...  Cell radio is just one more in the mix.

My bees are just fine and I run a 100 watt high frequency ham radio in my home with the antenna only 60 feet above them in a tree.

Sean Kelly
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