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Author Topic: CO2 - cut out  (Read 1172 times)
beecanbee
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« on: August 26, 2009, 02:06:22 AM »

I searched for CO2 and did not find any matches – so please let me describe a cut-out method that may be new to you.

If you can create an enclosure, or if the hive is already in one – where you have access to the bottom, this works.

Use clear plastic bags or sheeting to complete the enclosure so that it is generally air tight, and use plastic bags under the bees to catch them as they fall from the comb.  Use a plastic tube attached to a CO2 tank – the kind of tank that is used to push beer up from a keg on the floor to the spigot at a bar – and direct that stream of CO2 to the surface of the comb, and up between the comb layers – and the bees fall right off/out and onto your prepared clean plastic surface under them.  Use multiple layers of plastic, so you can lift one off and have more below for the next batch of bees to be gassed.  Net, bag and gas into their bag, any that are flying about.  Use a low volume gas flow so that you do not freeze the regulator or hose.

Move the motionless bees quickly to their new hive, spreading them across the bottom board (screened if possible) – as they are now overheating due to their metabolism and lack of fanning/breathing.  Use a hand fan on them to get air back to them in their new hive.  Once the bees are off of their comb, it can be harvested or framed using the rubber bands / cotton string method.

This method works remarkably well where the bees are in an enclosed spot that is hard to access. You obtain all of the live bees, plus as much of the original comb as you can gain access to.

The plastic should be clear so as to permit you to see as much as possible as you work.  The enclosure does not need to be truly air-tight, just tight enough to allow it to fill with the CO2 long enough to knock them out.

Have used this method where (1) the bees were outside – under the eve of a house.  A vacuum would also work in this case.  (2) In a tree that I was not allowed to cut down (so I made one access cut below the combs and used an L shaped knife that I crafted to go after the comb.)  and (3) Where the bees were underground within a tomb that contained urns of ashes and I had but a small opening into which I could reach.

A caveat – all of mine were cerana, but I can not think of a reason it wouldn’t work with mellifera.
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Paul

“I come from a state that raises corn and cotton and cockleburs and Democrats, and frothy eloquence neither convinces nor satisfies me. I am from Missouri. You have got to show me."  Duncan Vandiver

A boy can do half the work of a man, but two boys do less, and three boys get nothing done at all. Smiley

(False) Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.  - Samuel Johnson
iddee
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« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2009, 09:05:40 AM »

I once raised rats and mice for feeding snakes. I killed thousands of them to keep frozen for future feeding.

CO2 was the method I used to kill them. I never had the problem of them regaining consciousness.They died almost instantly.

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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
beecanbee
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« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2009, 05:08:13 PM »

I once raised rats and mice for feeding snakes. CO2 was the method I used to kill them. I never had the problem of them regaining consciousness.They died almost instantly.

With this method, my bee deaths are at most in the tens - certainly not in the hundreds.
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Paul

“I come from a state that raises corn and cotton and cockleburs and Democrats, and frothy eloquence neither convinces nor satisfies me. I am from Missouri. You have got to show me."  Duncan Vandiver

A boy can do half the work of a man, but two boys do less, and three boys get nothing done at all. Smiley

(False) Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.  - Samuel Johnson
beecanbee
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« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2009, 07:49:23 PM »

I never had the problem of them regaining consciousness.They died almost instantly. 

Iddee,  Please let me add a bit more to my post and description of the technique.

Between the gassing and the fanning, it is not more than a minute or so.  The CO2 is simply used to knock them off of their comb and prevent them from flying off.  The plastic enclosure prevents them from flying off before or during the gassing and ensures sufficient CO2 concentration to be effective, even if it is windy.

This technique might best be used where you only have one shot at the cut out – maybe due to distance or construction timeline, might not have a vacuum (a forest), or where a vacuum might be ineffective (hive up inside a wall or tree that you cannot cut into, or possibly not even be able to see into).

And as for your rats – had you applied mouth to mouth resuscitation  grin evil grin just as soon as they went to their knees, I suspect you could have saved most of them.  That is essentially what the fanning does – it applies the equivalent of mouth to mouth without getting too personal with the ladies.
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Paul

“I come from a state that raises corn and cotton and cockleburs and Democrats, and frothy eloquence neither convinces nor satisfies me. I am from Missouri. You have got to show me."  Duncan Vandiver

A boy can do half the work of a man, but two boys do less, and three boys get nothing done at all. Smiley

(False) Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.  - Samuel Johnson
iddee
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« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2009, 08:52:05 PM »

Now see what you did? Since I don't have any more mice or rats, I tried your idea on the little 22 year old gal next door. She nearly killed me, and it's all your fault.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
beecanbee
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Location: Kamogawa, Chiba Japan


« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2009, 09:07:13 PM »

iddee, at your age - no wonder she got angry when you tried to enclose her in plastic..... she obviously wanted fur, pearls, or diamonds.
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Paul

“I come from a state that raises corn and cotton and cockleburs and Democrats, and frothy eloquence neither convinces nor satisfies me. I am from Missouri. You have got to show me."  Duncan Vandiver

A boy can do half the work of a man, but two boys do less, and three boys get nothing done at all. Smiley

(False) Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.  - Samuel Johnson
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