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Author Topic: Possible AFB, so what now?  (Read 2202 times)
romduck
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« on: August 17, 2009, 04:09:31 PM »

It is my first time encountering it, so even after pouring over the literature and the posts here, I'm not sure what my next best or MANDATORY step is.

The bullet points are:
-2 hives into Winter
-No notes on Fall inspection of anything odd.
-Lost both in the long cold wave in February, leaving honey in the hive.
-In June a swarm took up in one of the hives and I consolidated what honey was left from the other and gave it to them.
-Laying patterns looked great and they were building up without my help or feeding and I honestly didn't bother with them much.
-Today I found her laying pattern of eggs and young to uncapped larva still rock solid

BUT...
--I also found holes all over the place on the capped larva.
--Around 3-5 larva on a frame were mush. Sticky on a toothpick but not as ropey as some descriptions and with no particular odor.
--Some caps appeared slightly sunken but not dramatically.

So..
>Do I have to report this immediately to my agricultural research station?
>What else, if anything, do I need to do to diagnose?

And...
}Will Terramycin help at this point?
}Is it too late in the year to shake out the bees to separate them from the larva?
}Burn it, Burn it all!

Any thoughts? huh
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Rommie L. Duckworth
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kathyp
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« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2009, 04:21:58 PM »

http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,11055.0.html

here is one discussion that we have had.  there are more if you do a search.

people "treat" in a lot of ways.  everything from burning it all, to shaking out and replacing all foundation....hard to do at this time of the year.  if you have caught it very early, you can try the terramycin, but you may have to remove all brood for it to work, or do a very long treatment.  if you report it, they will probably want you to destroy the hives. 

it appears that AHB is far more common than most people realize.

nice sitrep.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2009, 04:43:02 PM »

First make sure. There are a few other brood diseases that it could be, including european foulbrood.  Do a milk test or buy a test.

Or submit samples for testing:
http://www.ars.usda.gov/Services/docs.htm?docid=7473

Rick
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romduck
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« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2009, 01:11:07 PM »

Thanks. I found so many different  avenues to follow (here on the site and elsewhere) that I wasn't sure what the next step should be.

It sounds like it if it IS AFB (proper testing will be my next step) than it is both more common and manageable (if not cureable) than some would make it sound.
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Rommie L. Duckworth
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SlickMick
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« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2009, 07:10:43 PM »

Rommie, I found AFB in one of my 4 hives in May. After discussing it with one of the 2 state inspectors, I decided to shake the hive, destroy the brood, put the bees back into new facilities with new foundation and have everything irradiated. So far the hive has recovered its brood and is now back to a full deep with no evidence of a return of the afb. None of my other hives have been affected. The inspector mentioned that afb is all throughout the state. The DPI used to do compulsory testing for it but dont bother now as it is considered endemic.

Just a thought as I dont know if you have come across the option. It is not recommended by most as the best option but for the moment it has worked for me. Maybe I am just lucky

Mick
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   And men of religion are scanty,
On a road never cross'd 'cept by folk that are lost,
   One Michael Magee had a shanty.

Now this Mike was the dad of a ten-year-old lad,
   Plump, healthy, and stoutly conditioned;
He was strong as the best, but poor Mike had no rest
   For the youngster had never been christened,
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paulh
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« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2009, 09:30:45 PM »

...and have everything irradiated.

Mick, could you explain how and where this was done?
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SlickMick
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« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2009, 12:09:40 AM »

Bearing in mind that I am in Australia and that this may not be much use to you, there is a company in most of our major cities that do irradiation.. I imagine for things that require pest control and/or sterilisation.

They place the stuff into a chamber and insert radioactive rods into the chamber.. not sure but I think gamma radiation. Anyhow nothing alive comes out of the chamber. It kills afb spores and other nasties anyhow. There would have to be facillities in the US that do the same thing.

Best I can do for you Paul

Mick
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On the outer Barcoo where the churches are few,
   And men of religion are scanty,
On a road never cross'd 'cept by folk that are lost,
   One Michael Magee had a shanty.

Now this Mike was the dad of a ten-year-old lad,
   Plump, healthy, and stoutly conditioned;
He was strong as the best, but poor Mike had no rest
   For the youngster had never been christened,
A BUSH CHRISTENING - A.B. "Banjo" Paterson http://www.middlemiss.org/lit/authors/patersonab/poetry/christen.html
Finski
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« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2009, 07:06:35 AM »


1) In late summer shaking into foundation hive is not a good trick. Otherwise it is effective. It depends how far is your autumn.

2) If you have clean combs, you may shake bees onto combs and feed winter food later.


If you have super combs, where it has not bee brood, you may sterilize them with Virkon S.
First wash the honey away with warm water. Then shake liquid ans soak into Virkon solution.
Probably your comb stuff has ABF spores.

3) I have got rid off ABF-cases, when I have shaked bees before winter onto capped wintercombs which I got from healthy hives.


Burn the sick frames

Flame your hive boxes with propane, and bottom and cover.

.

 
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JP
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« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2009, 09:41:23 AM »


1) In late summer shaking into foundation hive is not a good trick. Otherwise it is effective. It depends how far is your autumn.

2) If you have clean combs, you may shake bees onto combs and feed winter food later.


If you have super combs, where it has not bee brood, you may sterilize them with Virkon S.
First wash the honey away with warm water. Then shake liquid ans soak into Virkon solution.
Probably your comb stuff has ABF spores.

3) I have got rid off ABF-cases, when I have shaked bees before winter onto capped wintercombs which I got from healthy hives.


Burn the sick frames

Flame your hive boxes with propane, and bottom and cover.

.

 



Don't mean to go off topic but is this the Finsky we all know from a few years past? If so, welcome back!


...JP
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Finski
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« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2009, 03:05:40 PM »

.
If you have plastic hives, wash them with 3% lye. Use hot water. It losens resins and wax and poo.
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Finski
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« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2009, 03:23:56 PM »

.
4 times it has happened that I have met a wast contamination in brood area in final inspection  before winter feeding.
Bees were plenty and it was pitty to kill them.

I have taken capped honey or capped winter food frames from another hives and shaked bees in front of hive. In every case I have not seen sign of disease in spring and act succeeded 100%.

When bees have spores in their stomach, they consume food and defecate spores out.

***************

I have had long time AFB problems and the reason has been sun wax smelter. Wax smelter has all diseseas what you have in hives and bees have opportunity to lick the stuff. I wondered long time why my home yeard hives become sick.

I thought that spores will be killed in sun smelter but they stand 130 C heat.

.
.

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BjornBee
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« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2009, 04:25:55 PM »

romduck,
since you asked about terramycin, and it seems that is a possibility, let me give you an option.

Years ago, in a discussion about AFB, a researcher made the comment about a two cycle treatment and changing of the genetics as an option for AFB. Maybe not for full blown complete hive loss type stuff. But for cases caught early.

1) Remove any frame with open signs of AFB
2) Treat for three weeks with dusting as directed with terramyacin
3) Do a fall/spring or a spring/fall treatment.
4) Replace the queen as genetics has much to do with AFB.

I started a yard for AFB a number of years ago when I was inspecting. I did as this researcher had suggested. In the years to follow, from the placement of the first colony in that yard, none has come down with AFB again. And no other treatments have been accomplished.

I actually wanted to play around with resistance with AFB when I started this yard. But now I have no visible AFB with the hives I have placed into this yard.

It also seems that dead out hives, cases where comb is allowed to sit around in stored damp/wet conditions, and hives that are dying from other causes, all seem to allow AFB to get a foothold. I've seen some sac or other dead spring brood (chilled brood) in the spring, and then when the cells are all mush, it seems this is a good place for AFB to outbreak.

You actually may have EFB, SAC, or a case of some larvae that were killed by pesticides. They all involve larvae that turn to mush, rot, and turn nasty.

a "Holt's milk test" is better than 95% accurate. With a milk test and confirmation of ropiness, and visual cues, 99% accuracy can be achieved.

As with all cases of AFB, give a moment to think of how you may of gotten AFB. Maybe you can keep from getting it again.

Good luck!
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Finski
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« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2009, 12:26:22 AM »

.
If the disese is not bad, you may stop the disease with terramycin.
So you save winter bees because they are in brood frames.

Then in proper situation move bees onto clean frames  in autumn or in early spring.

.
In my country we can use terramycin (or what it is now) but it cannt be detected in sold honey.

.
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JP
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« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2009, 09:47:39 AM »

Welcome back Finski!


...JP
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"Good friends are as sweet as honey" Winne the Pooh

My pictures can be viewed at http://picasaweb.google.com/pyxicephalus
and
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Finski
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« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2009, 10:58:53 AM »

Welcome back Finski!


...JP

Thanks Jp. I am not going to disturb you much. You wondering same thigns as years ago.
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JP
The Swarm King
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Location: Metairie, Louisiana

I like doing cut-outs, but I love catching swarms!


WWW
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2009, 11:43:03 AM »

Welcome back Finski!


...JP

Thanks Jp. I am not going to disturb you much. You wondering same thigns as years ago.

We have all missed you, your knowledge, and your posts. Just wanted to welcome you back and hope to see lots more from you. This forum has grown quite a bit since you were a regular last.

How many hives are you running these days?


...JP
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"Good friends are as sweet as honey" Winne the Pooh

My pictures can be viewed at http://picasaweb.google.com/pyxicephalus
and
http://picasaweb.google.com/112138792165178452970

My Youtube videos can be viewed here: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=JPthebeeman&aq=f

My website JPthebeeman.com http://www.jpthebeeman.com/jpthebeeman/
Finski
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« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2009, 12:01:06 PM »

.
I have about 25 hives.

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kathyp
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« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2009, 01:19:47 PM »

finski, many new people.  same questions. we learn.  we teach.  we learn some more.  glad you are back.  you have much to teach!  grin
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
danno
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« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2009, 01:43:51 PM »

Finski
So glad your back!!!     This forum needs more like you!!!
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