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Author Topic: Inner Cover Idea what do you think?  (Read 2639 times)

Offline hollybees

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Inner Cover Idea what do you think?
« on: July 30, 2009, 01:14:55 PM »

Hi Everyone,
I recently posted about little ants in my inner covers.
They were in my inner covers, nesting in the cracks between the bordering wood piece's and the center piece of plywood.

I banged and shook the covers to get them and the larvae out and as a result the corners got loose and didn't to them any good.

That got me to thinking about how the inner covers were built... as you know there are "5" pieces of wood.
I'm a machinist by trade and I own a small cnc machine that can be programmed to cut just about anything you want.

What if I took good quality 3/4" particle board and "cut" or "routered" the bee space pockets and the vent slots into the wood.
The whole thing would be one piece! no place for ants and it would last much longer.

Not sure about the particle board though?
Could use pine boards and laminate then together to get the width needed.
I also thought about plastic or PVC I think you can get them in sheets.

What do you think?
I may just try it for fun...but I'd like to make a million of them and get rich!  :-D hey a guy can dream right!

Thanks,
Paul




Offline Robo

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Re: Inner Cover Idea what do you think?
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2009, 02:07:53 PM »
Not to rain on your parade, but assembling with polyurethane glue fills in the gaps.
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Offline Bee-Bop

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Re: Inner Cover Idea what do you think?
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2009, 02:29:14 PM »
Don't sound as tho they were made within a machinst's tolerance ! :chop:

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Offline kathyp

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Re: Inner Cover Idea what do you think?
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2009, 02:31:52 PM »
i'd be happy with something that didn't warp  :-)
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Offline hollybees

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Re: Inner Cover Idea what do you think?
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2009, 04:32:37 PM »
Not to rain on your parade, but assembling with polyurethane glue fills in the gaps.
That's good to know because that was my 1st thought, that the gaps should be filled but I didn't know what was safe for the bees.

I've only bought my woodenware from a guy who makes the equipment and I didn't see any glue used on the inner cover.
I kind of assumed that maybe it was a bee health reason.

Still if it were a one piece construction I wouldn't need any glue.

Don't sound as tho they were made within a machinist's tolerance ! :chop:

Bee-Bop

Well.... it would bee if I made it you see :-D

i'd be happy with something that didn't warp  :-)

What has warped on yours?
The whole thing or the inner area, I didn't think they would warp because the outer cover would keep it flat.
I guess it would depend on the type of wood I guess.

Thanks,
Paul

Offline hardwood

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Re: Inner Cover Idea what do you think?
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2009, 04:55:15 PM »
Hi, I'm a woodworker here in FL and I can tell you for certain that the particle board woudn't work. The humidity in the hive alone would be enough to cause it to crumble in a short time. If your supplier were to use FULL mortise and tenon joints or possibly half-lap joints you could bang the heck outta them and they wouldn't fail. Glue is needed in the joints of course. If you wanted to try a full cnc made inner cover I would stick to either a good grade of plywood...maybe 4-ply CDX...or at the very least HDF (high density fiber board...hard to find at the big orange box, but a local sign maker will have a source).
Good luck with it.
Peace be yours,
Scott
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Offline wayne

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Re: Inner Cover Idea what do you think?
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2009, 06:14:16 PM »
  Used to have an inner cover made from that re-cycled plastic. Was molded like you described the cutting. I loved it and it was great to use, but it walked off from a hive I loaned out to move a swarm.
  Let me know if you do go in business.
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Offline homer

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Re: Inner Cover Idea what do you think?
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2009, 07:26:34 PM »

Not sure about the particle board though?
Could use pine boards and laminate then together to get the width needed.
I also thought about plastic or PVC I think you can get them in sheets.

What do you think?

Being a machinist also, I would think that you might be able to make a few for your own use, but I don't see that you could cnc machine parts to be used in beehives and sell them for a price people would be willing to pay for them.  Way too much time involved.  Also, I think that sheets of plastic or pvc or whatever you are thinking of would be fairly expensive.  If you wanted to mass produce them out of plastic, molding them would be the only way to go.

Offline Scadsobees

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Re: Inner Cover Idea what do you think?
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2009, 12:25:26 AM »
Inner covers?  I don't need no steenkin' inner covers!

A piece of 1/4 inch plywood with a hole in the middle works fine too.

But hey, it is sure fun to try the stuff out!! :)
Rick

Offline hollybees

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Re: Inner Cover Idea what do you think?
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2009, 10:20:48 AM »
Hi, I'm a woodworker here in FL and I can tell you for certain that the particle board woudn't work. The humidity in the hive alone would be enough to cause it to crumble in a short time. If your supplier were to use FULL mortise and tenon joints or possibly half-lap joints you could bang the heck outta them and they wouldn't fail. Glue is needed in the joints of course. If you wanted to try a full cnc made inner cover I would stick to either a good grade of plywood...maybe 4-ply CDX...or at the very least HDF (high density fiber board...hard to find at the big orange box, but a local sign maker will have a source).
Good luck with it.
Peace be yours,
Scott

Wow....Great info Scott!
I had to get out my woodworking dictionary for some of it though  :-D
Do you think the HDF would work if it were dipped in the wax/gum rosin mixture Micheal Bush uses?
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesdipping.htm

I did some business w/a woman who makes signs. That's good idea

Thanks for sharing your expertise.
Peace to you as well..
Paul



Offline hollybees

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Re: Inner Cover Idea what do you think?
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2009, 11:12:44 AM »
  Used to have an inner cover made from that re-cycled plastic. Was molded like you described the cutting. I loved it and it was great to use.
Interesting Idea this recycled plastic...I hadn't thought of that.
Thanks Wayne

Being a machinist also, I would think that you might be able to make a few for your own use, but I don't see that you could cnc machine parts to be used in beehives and sell them for a price people would be willing to pay for them.  Way too much time involved.  Also, I think that sheets of plastic or pvc or whatever you are thinking of would be fairly expensive.  If you wanted to mass produce them out of plastic, molding them would be the only way to go.

Ahhh.....a fellow machinist good to hear from you. (I hope your working...the trade has takin' quite a hit)
This was an idea that I had and just wanted to bounce it off some fellow beeks.
I have not researched the costs yet, first I needed to get some idea's.
Plastics I'm pretty sure are expensive these days because they are petroleum based.
Honestly, I'm not sure many folks would want plastics in the hive anyway. (just a hunch)
I've been considering a cnc router to get into sign making and such.
I think once programmed and running it would produce one in about 10 min's.
Your right on about molding them for mass producing, but I can't see that the demand would be that high.
Right now I have a 3 axis knee mill and I'm going to try making some for my own use as an experiment.
I'll post some pics when I do.

Take care and thanks for the input
Paul

Inner covers?  I don't need no steenkin' inner covers!
a piece of 1/4 inch plywood with a hole in the middle works fine too.
But hey, it is sure fun to try the stuff out!! :)

Rick,
I seriously busted out laughing when I read that.....I use that "I don't need no steenkin"  line all the time! :-D
plywood sounds easy, but I'm confused about the ventilation and the bee space thing??

Paul




Offline lakeman

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Re: Inner Cover Idea what do you think?
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2009, 11:30:01 AM »


Rick,
I seriously busted out laughing when I read that.....I use that "I don't need no steenkin"  line all the time! :-D
plywood sounds easy, but I'm confused about the ventilation and the bee space thing??

Paul




[/quote]

Have you seen what the commercial keepers use? no inner cover, and Just a sheet of 1/2" ply, with a hole and jarcap in it
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Offline lakeman

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Re: Inner Cover Idea what do you think?
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2009, 11:32:27 AM »
Hey, how do ya'll make them "partial" quotes reply answers, and quotes from several different postings in a reply?
I am my own biggest critic!

Offline Scadsobees

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Re: Inner Cover Idea what do you think?
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2009, 05:36:47 PM »
Ventilation, bee space?  Don't bother mine.  As long as you can pry the sucker off it don't bother them much.  In the fall/winter/spring I'm going to have a spacer on anyway, that'll do away with any bee space.

As far as ventilation...I've got enough holes and cracks  (in the hive!  :-D) that there's plenty.  If not sure, cut a 2-inch "v" in the front of it, the bees can exit there as well as ventilate.

Many people use a peice of canvas laid on the top as a cover...then they can just peel that back.  It ventilates as well as keeps the bees from attaching the cover.

So...you can see they are pretty versitile as far as what goes on top....

Speaking of which...
Recently on Beemaster....
Rick

Offline BoBn

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Re: Inner Cover Idea what do you think?
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2009, 08:24:04 PM »
Hey, how do ya'll make them "partial" quotes reply answers, and quotes from several different postings in a reply?
You can quote a single author with the "quote" button
or you can do something like this:

Code: [Select]
[quote author=Groucho Marx]
It's hard to get ivory in Africa, but in Alabama the Tuscaloosa.
[/quote]
Quote from: Groucho Marx
It's hard to get ivory in Africa, but in Alabama the Tuscaloosa.
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--Thomas Jefferson

Offline Sparky

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Re: Inner Cover Idea what do you think?
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2009, 12:09:48 AM »
Here is some pics of ventilated inner covers I made. The small plywood inner frame is recessed into the slotted outer frame that holds the screen in with the aid of polyurethane glue. The areas routed out at the slots gets storm door metal screen in them to keep out pest.