Need Bees Removed?
International
Beekeeping Forums
September 22, 2014, 04:17:05 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: Beemaster's official FACEBOOK page
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar bee removal Login Register Chat  

Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: What are the signs of queenlessness?  (Read 4331 times)
David LaFerney
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 924


Location: Cookeville, TN - U.S.A.


WWW
« on: July 30, 2009, 09:09:35 AM »

27 days ago I started a trap out with a frame of eggs and one of stores.  When I checked it in about a week I had several capped queen cells.



Theoretically I could now have a laying queen, so I took a look yesterday but I didn't see any evidence of a queen - other than opened queen cells.  This is no big surprise, because I sometimes have a hard time finding the marked queen in my other hive, and eggs are a challenge for my nearly 50 year old eyes.

I realize from lurking around here that this hive is in the period that sometimes causes queenlessness anxiety even in experienced beeks.  You imagine that the virgin queen got ate by birds on her mating flight or that she just isn't up to the job or whatever, and about the time that the new mail order queen arrives you start seeing brood.

So I'm not really too concerned yet. 

Anyway, this hive seems completely serene and normal to my newbee senses - working hard building comb, bringing in stores, not at all aggressive, not making in ominous moaning sound - so I really suspect that it is queenright and I just need to relax for a few days.

But, just for the record what are the signs of queenlessness besides an absence of eggs?  Can an experienced beek really spot a queenless hive by some property or behavior?
Logged

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Samuel Clemens

Putting the "ape" in apiary since 2009.
JP
The Swarm King
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 11676


Location: Metairie, Louisiana

I like doing cut-outs, but I love catching swarms!


WWW
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2009, 09:37:39 AM »

No eggs, larvae after a while is the usual sign. There usually is the roar. On smallish queenless hives I've seen them go lethargic, then perk up instantly when a queen was introduced.

Another sign of queenlessness, I take a queen catcher or cage that has housed other queens and place it atop the frames and observe their reaction. Queenless hives want a queen so badly, they converge onto the cage or catcher thinking they have a new queen, showing signs of acceptance. With a queen catcher they will often fill the catcher and cover it with a mass of bees.


...JP
Logged

"Good friends are as sweet as honey" Winne the Pooh

My pictures can be viewed at http://picasaweb.google.com/pyxicephalus
and
http://picasaweb.google.com/112138792165178452970

My Youtube videos can be viewed here: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=JPthebeeman&aq=f

My website JPthebeeman.com http://www.jpthebeeman.com/jpthebeeman/
Eshu
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 108

Location: Ilfeld, NM


« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2009, 10:21:43 AM »

Unfortunately there aren't any hard and fast rules.  Usually there is the roar and increased defensiveness, but then some will confuse you by being quiet and gentle.

Don't worry yet.  Though make sure there is room for the queen to lay when she is ready.  If all of the frames look like your photo, it will take them a little time to move nectar.
Logged
sc-bee
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1962


Location: Edgefield, SC


« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2009, 02:18:36 PM »

>27 days ago I started a trap out with a frame of eggs and one of stores.  When I checked it in about a week I had several capped queen cells

Hang in there a little longer!!! 28 days mate and lay (sometimes longer sometimes sooner) Wink
Logged

John 3:16
David LaFerney
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 924


Location: Cookeville, TN - U.S.A.


WWW
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2009, 04:09:15 PM »

Unfortunately there aren't any hard and fast rules.  Usually there is the roar and increased defensiveness, but then some will confuse you by being quiet and gentle.

Don't worry yet.  Though make sure there is room for the queen to lay when she is ready.  If all of the frames look like your photo, it will take them a little time to move nectar.


That frame was the one that had the eggs and brood on it that I used to bait the hive. Actually there is a fair amount of new white comb - almost a whole frame with only a few stores, and this:



empty comb which is where I bet I find the first eggs / brood when it appears.  It seems to me like they especially like to lay in brand new comb like this.
Logged

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Samuel Clemens

Putting the "ape" in apiary since 2009.
David LaFerney
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 924


Location: Cookeville, TN - U.S.A.


WWW
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2009, 04:10:58 PM »

No eggs, larvae after a while is the usual sign. There usually is the roar. On smallish queenless hives I've seen them go lethargic, then perk up instantly when a queen was introduced.

Another sign of queenlessness, I take a queen catcher or cage that has housed other queens and place it atop the frames and observe their reaction. Queenless hives want a queen so badly, they converge onto the cage or catcher thinking they have a new queen, showing signs of acceptance. With a queen catcher they will often fill the catcher and cover it with a mass of bees.


...JP

That would be cool but I don't have anything like that.  Maybe next year.  Thanks though.
Logged

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Samuel Clemens

Putting the "ape" in apiary since 2009.
David LaFerney
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 924


Location: Cookeville, TN - U.S.A.


WWW
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2009, 04:13:02 PM »

>27 days ago I started a trap out with a frame of eggs and one of stores.  When I checked it in about a week I had several capped queen cells

Hang in there a little longer!!! 28 days mate and lay (sometimes longer sometimes sooner) Wink


I thought it was 24, but anyway with all the rain we've had I wouldn't be surprised if it takes a bit longer.  I just need to give it a week or so, and maybe I can spot some brood by then.
Logged

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Samuel Clemens

Putting the "ape" in apiary since 2009.
sc-bee
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1962


Location: Edgefield, SC


« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2009, 09:10:29 PM »

>27 days ago I started a trap out with a frame of eggs and one of stores.  When I checked it in about a week I had several capped queen cells

Hang in there a little longer!!! 28 days mate and lay (sometimes longer sometimes sooner) Wink


I thought it was 24, but anyway with all the rain we've had I wouldn't be surprised if it takes a bit longer.  I just need to give it a week or so, and maybe I can spot some brood by then.

Nothing etched in stone as we all know grin

Beekeeping Math

Caste   Hatch    Cap          Emerge   
Queen   3½ days  8 days +-1   16 days +-1  Laying        28 days +-5
Worker  3½ days  9 days +-1   20 days +-1  Foraging      42 days +-7
Drone   3½ days 10 days +-1   24 days +-1  Flying to DCA 38 days +-5
Logged

John 3:16
David LaFerney
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 924


Location: Cookeville, TN - U.S.A.


WWW
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2009, 11:21:42 PM »

Beekeeping Math

Caste   Hatch    Cap          Emerge   
Queen   3½ days  8 days +-1   16 days +-1  Laying        28 days +-5
Worker  3½ days  9 days +-1   20 days +-1  Foraging      42 days +-7
Drone   3½ days 10 days +-1   24 days +-1  Flying to DCA 38 days +-5

Thanks.
Logged

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Samuel Clemens

Putting the "ape" in apiary since 2009.
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Beemaster's Beekeeping Ring
Previous | Home | Join | Random | Next
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.303 seconds with 21 queries.

Google visited last this page September 20, 2014, 08:46:32 AM