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Author Topic: Mite treatment options  (Read 6798 times)
kathyp
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« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2009, 10:17:27 AM »

i don't know if a research link that covers all this stuff.  there are individual links and studies.  one was one recently posted here on PS treatment. 

one other thought....treatment options and methods might also have something to do with where you live.  some of us have total or near total brood breaks in the winter.  others, in warmer climates, do not. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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« Reply #21 on: July 31, 2009, 11:20:12 AM »

I use a Bonide brand fogger. I have never heard of one of them flaring up. The Black Flag and Burgess, I have.
I use thymol crystals. yes, it is from thyme.
I would not use a fogger that had been used for pesticides.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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kathyp
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« Reply #22 on: July 31, 2009, 12:12:14 PM »

i have seen the thymol oil for sale.  where do you find the crystals and how do you calculate dose?
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #23 on: July 31, 2009, 01:54:07 PM »

The fogger is filled with 1 liter fgmo and 50 gram thymol.
Two trigger blasts into the entrance and move on to the next hive.

My supply dried up. I don't know where you could get it now. I would try google.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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kathyp
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« Reply #24 on: July 31, 2009, 02:00:07 PM »

that's how i found the thymol oil.  one of the ebay stores carries it.  i was thinking the oil would be good, but it's stronger and i'd have to figure out a dose and way to administer.  i am leaning toward the OA, but i will not decide anything until i see how they come through this winter.  that will make no treatment for 3 years in established hives.  one got treated this spring, but it was a swarm from last year.  pretty sure it came from the berry field pollination hives and it ended up badly infested.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Hethen57
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« Reply #25 on: July 31, 2009, 07:10:44 PM »

What is FMGO?
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« Reply #26 on: July 31, 2009, 09:09:14 PM »

What is FMGO?

Food Grade Mineral Oil
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Hethen57
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« Reply #27 on: August 02, 2009, 10:21:52 AM »

Thanks.  Is that the same type that you can get at a drugstore, or something different?
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« Reply #28 on: August 02, 2009, 10:38:55 AM »

Thanks.  Is that the same type that you can get at a drugstore, or something different?

I don't know, but probably.  I'm under the impression that usually "food grade" means that the manufacturer jumped through some hoops to get to use the term, but the product is the same as the non FG item. 

I would guess that technically everything  you use (including buckets, strainers, containers, chemicals, cleaners, extractors, lubricants for equipment...) in the production of honey for resale / human consumption is supposed to be FDA or dept of Agriculture approved for food production - food grade.

But that's just idle speculation on my part.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #29 on: August 08, 2009, 08:49:01 PM »

In the case of mineral oil, it may not be the same.  Oil can be very carefully refined and handled or not.  In the case of the laxative at the drug store it's actually USP which is a higher standard than FG.
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« Reply #30 on: August 09, 2009, 02:07:00 AM »

So Michael..would you think that the laxative grade would work the same as food grade if you were going to try this method o mite control?
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« Reply #31 on: August 10, 2009, 07:58:12 PM »

>So Michael..would you think that the laxative grade would work the same as food grade if you were going to try this method o mite control?

Yes.  It works fine.  But I would want at least a minimum of Food Grade.  USP (the laxitive) will surpass that grade.

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Michael Bush
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« Reply #32 on: September 01, 2009, 09:38:57 AM »

How many mites is too many?

I assume it depends on lots of factors, not sure how to figure..

For instance my strongest hive has brood in 3 deeps, at least as of 2-3 weeks ago.  I did see one live mite on a worker, and all 5 drone pupae I pulled had 2 mites each.  Crisco board under screened bottom board collected 200 mites over about 40 hours.

I bought thymol (Apiguard packs) but after Michael Bush's post I'm not so sure I want to use it.

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Damonh
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« Reply #33 on: September 01, 2009, 09:51:03 AM »

I guess my question is  the same. How many mites are too many.
I did a PS shake on three hives last week and got 13, 7, 10 counts.
  7 = 2.33% infestation
10 = 3.33 % infestation
13 = 4.33 % infestation
If the math is correct.

These hives have survived for 4 years with out any treatments. I think I read somewhere that if the counts are over 5 you need to do some type of treatment.

Damon
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heaflaw
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« Reply #34 on: September 10, 2009, 11:34:40 PM »

I agree with Michael Bush.  Don't treat.  Aquire genetics that don't treatment for mites or brood diseases either by purchasing queens that have been bred to not need it or develop your own (it's not that difficult to do).  It's a lot less expensive and a lot less work.  Also, by treating you are perpetuating inferior genetics.
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kathyp
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« Reply #35 on: September 11, 2009, 12:55:07 AM »

until you have all that genetics stuff worked out, if you need to treat, apiguard is a good choice.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #36 on: September 11, 2009, 10:06:36 AM »


I would like to avoid treatments - especially with chemicals, but I'm sure that it's a long way from where I'm at to having a bee yard full of colonies of naturally mite resistant bees. 

there is one essential step that many who desire as you do, to get off treatments, fail to take.

deciding not to use treatments.

you will never have "a bee yard full of colonies of naturally mite resistant bees" if you treat...you simply are not culling the stock that needs culling.

deknow
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heaflaw
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« Reply #37 on: September 11, 2009, 11:08:52 AM »

Deknow,

I agree completely.  You can monitor mites levels & keep great records all you want, but until you take the step of ending treatments, you are preventing bees from doing what nature intended: that is for them to find their own solution to mites & brood diseases.

Heaflaw
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kathyp
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« Reply #38 on: September 11, 2009, 11:24:32 AM »

super idea but it's probably good to have a plan for replacing your bees before you just let them die.  to tell people to 'just quit treating' when they are starting out, may be dooming their hobby and desire.  

having invested 100's of dollars on their new endeavor, it would be sad to have these new folks open their hives in the spring to find them all dead for lack of mite treatment.  the goal should be mite and disease resistant bees, but that is a goal...not a religion

additional thought:  maybe someone can start a thread on how to reach that goal.  things we have done to get mite resistant bees.  things that have not worked, etc.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #39 on: September 11, 2009, 12:03:46 PM »

you really don't think hfcs or thyme oil gets in your honey?

i've spoken one on one to several folks who have worked for large commercial migratory operations. they all say the same thing, bees are fed hfcs to make them brood up early, the hfcs gets stored in the comb and is extracted to make room for more brood, and to keep the hive size and weight small for shipping on a semi.  of course this "honey" is worth more as honey than it costs for hfcs to feed the bees, so it is sold as honey.

if there were any desire to keep feed out of honey, it would be dyed before being fed so that it could be seen in the comb or the jar.

wrt thymol, i know one beekeeper that uses no treatments who loaned out some supers to another beekeeper, "organic" and "natural".  the supers came back smelling strongly of thymol.  there are good studies out there that show thymol residues in honey.  to assume these things stay in the broodnest or disapate flys in the face of reality...and assuming that beekeepers don't feed or treat while collecting honey is like assuming that drivers on the road are sober and driving the speed limit.

deknow
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