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Author Topic: winter emergency feeding down under  (Read 2921 times)
Yarra_Valley
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Location: Healesville, Victoria, Australia


« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2009, 09:13:40 AM »

I suppose that you are now going to sit outside your hive with a hair drier, warming the girls as they come in to land with a load  grin

Mick

Don't be ridiculous, I don't have that much time nor an extension cord to reach all the way out in the paddock. I small gas powered heater at a safe distance would be much more practical. Otherwise I could just keep them in the house with a heater.

Thanks for the advice guys. If anyone has any other fondant ideas feel free to post them.

James.
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Koala John
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« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2009, 09:23:50 AM »

Hi James,
Here is my fondant recipe along with some notes:

"6.25 to 1 ratio of sugar to water, with half a table spoon of vinegar per kilogram of sugar.
This ratio worked best for me - no need to keep heating for long periods of time to lower the water content, but enough time that things didn't happen too fast for me.

I put it on a high heat, and kept stirring. It will suddenly thicken at some point. A minute or so later, I would start checking the temp, and the starting point was usually around 245 or so. As soon as it hit 265 degrees F or so, I'd turn the heat off. Some batches went to 270, but no problems were caused. I found this process quite fast and simple.

I didn't let it cool for long, just a minute or two (I was making small batches though due to cooking pot size constraints!). It was still boiling when I poured it into the moulds. Any large bubbles that rose to the surface I just patted down with a spoon.

I didn't whisk it, I found that dropping samples into water too hit and miss and laborious, and I can run out a batch in half an hour or less."


I used this a couple of years ago and got good results. However I doubt I will ever go so such trouble again - it's hot, time consuming, messy and not much fun at all. I found I was able to get more sugar into a hive using the newspaper method. I had one hive in terrible strife, so as well as sugar on top of newspaper, I pulled out a couple of frames on the side and filled the space with a huge amount of sugar. They came through Winter in fantastic condition. Sometimes the simplest things really do work the best, and plain old white sugar with some newspaper is is simple as it gets.

Best regards,
John.
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Joelel
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« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2009, 11:17:06 AM »

Sugar water in an inside feeder is the only way to go,they need both water and sugar that is in honey.

http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/Feeders/products/113/
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Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation
kathyp
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« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2009, 01:06:33 PM »

Quote
Sugar water in an inside feeder is the only way to go,they need both water and sugar that is in honey

in the winter, probably not.  might depend on where you live, but sugar water in the hive in winter is usually a bad idea.  it adds moisture to the hive.  the bees will not take cold syrup.  it gets moldy. 

fondant is a good solution for many.  in a wetter climate like mine, dry sugar is a better solution.  the best thing is to leave enough honey in the hives, but we don't always judge that correctly and the weather can mess up our calculations  smiley
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Yarra_Valley
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« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2009, 04:10:02 PM »

Sugar water in an inside feeder is the only way to go,they need both water and sugar that is in honey.

http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/Feeders/products/113/


Joelel, this has already been discussed above, but thanks for stopping by.

Koala John, thanks for advice. I could put frame out and add more sugar, just worried about it running out the entrance and creating a robbing problem. I'll take a look on the weekend and see how they're going with what I've given them. I gave them castor, which isn't something I'd usually do due to the higher expense, but I figured they'd be able to consume it faster if need be due to the smaller grain size. Oh yeah, Melbourne section meeting on Thursday, if you're interested.

-James.

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Joelel
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« Reply #25 on: July 27, 2009, 10:38:42 PM »

Quote
Sugar water in an inside feeder is the only way to go,they need both water and sugar that is in honey

in the winter, probably not.  might depend on where you live, but sugar water in the hive in winter is usually a bad idea.  it adds moisture to the hive.  the bees will not take cold syrup.  it gets moldy. 

fondant is a good solution for many.  in a wetter climate like mine, dry sugar is a better solution.  the best thing is to leave enough honey in the hives, but we don't always judge that correctly and the weather can mess up our calculations  smiley

A hive will have a gallon gone in a day.Moisture in the winter or summer no difference,it will be gone before it gets cold. Will they eat cold honey ?
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Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation
kathyp
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« Reply #26 on: July 28, 2009, 12:36:17 AM »

you are incorrect about the moisture and about using an inside feeder if the winters are cold.  you could probably do it in Florida or other southern places.  perhaps you can do it where you live.  most of the rest of us can not.  the moisture does make a difference and it can be the difference between a hive surviving winter, or not.  it is also unwise to open the hives during winter on days that are cold.  in places where the entire winter is cold, it's better not to open at all and break the seal the bees have created.

putting a bucket of warm syrup on top of the hive during warmer days in winter is fine.  it should be removed before dark or cold.  temp differences can cause the bucket feeder to drip. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Yarra_Valley
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« Reply #27 on: July 28, 2009, 08:20:10 AM »


a hive will have a gallon gone in a day.Moisture in the winter or summer no difference,it will be gone before it gets cold. Will they eat cold honey ?

Brood nest is way to small go go through anywhere near a quart in a day.

Will they eat cold hoeny? lets look a little into that in a little more detail. Honey, being hygroscopic (absorbing or attracting moisture from the air) also tends to absorb moisture, diluting it. Therefore you can have the same problem with honey as you can with sugar syrup; fermentation and the associated ill effects on the bees.  Therefore it can be advisable to remove excess unsealed honey before the onset of winter. When the bees cap the honey with wax, the wax prevents it from absorbing moisture.
-James.
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Joelel
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« Reply #28 on: July 28, 2009, 03:45:29 PM »



Well lets see,It takes heat to evaporate water and make moisture. In the cold winter in a hive, where do you get enough heat to evaporate water to make moisture ? If it's warm enough to evaporate water then it's not cold enough to hurt the bees in any way.It takes a long time with heat to ferment sugar water or honey,so in a cold winter you have no fermentation and no moisture. Oh yes by the way,bees eat moisture off of anything. I also say, if they eat cold honey,they eat cold sugar water or frozen sugar water as they do moisture.

To start with,I would never close up a hive for the winter before making sure they had enough of everything. You know even if I thought I had to get in a hive for some reason and might leave a crack in the cover,all you have to do is throw a blanket over it and tie it down. Better yet move your hive in your house.

The whole problem is,man messes the bees whole life up.Man takes them our of their natural hives and puts them in man made hives and expects them to do as good. Puts them in weather where is not normal to them.

To start with, you don't leave bees any more room in a hive for the winter then they need. With little room they can keep it a little warm and live a normal life.

Different strokes for different folks,do what turns your crank.
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Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation
kathyp
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Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #29 on: July 28, 2009, 03:59:53 PM »

Quote
where do you get enough heat to evaporate water to make moisture


there is moisture in the air.  the bees  create heat.  if you add syrup, you have added moisture and even in the cold, moisture evaporates....if more slowly.

you have much to learn.

Quote
You know even if I thought I had to get in a hive for some reason and might leave a crack in the cover,all you have to do is throw a blanket over it and tie it down. Better yet move your hive in your house
.

you are joking, right?
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Joelel
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Location: Dallas,Texas


« Reply #30 on: July 28, 2009, 06:51:44 PM »

Quote
where do you get enough heat to evaporate water to make moisture


there is moisture in the air.  the bees  create heat.  if you add syrup, you have added moisture and even in the cold, moisture evaporates....if more slowly.

Right,There is moisture in the air all the time and bees create heat and sugar water will put a little more moisture in the air even if cold it will slowly evaporate.People are talking about moisture in the air and honey absorbing moisture,well, moisture in the air is not the problem,the problem is the bees eating to much water or moisture.If you feed sugar water it should be real thick so they don't get to much water.The best thing to do is feed corn syrup or pollen or nectar and water separate,that way they can eat what they need.

you have much to learn.

I'm not going to say you have alot to learn because we all do and you know that.

Quote
You know even if I thought I had to get in a hive for some reason and might leave a crack in the cover,all you have to do is throw a blanket over it and tie it down. Better yet move your hive in your house
.

you are joking, right? NO
« Last Edit: July 29, 2009, 12:03:52 PM by Joelel » Logged

Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation
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