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Author Topic: My first cutout  (Read 1673 times)
fermentedhiker
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« on: July 11, 2009, 08:42:10 PM »

Well I just got back from my first cutout.  It took about 3 hours and I only got tagged once and that was from the bee I put my hand on without looking first  cheesy

The removal itself went fairly smooth.  I removed the sheet of plywood on the interior wall of the barn.  Then cut the vapor barrier away stud by stud to reveal lots of honey.  This was a swarm that moved into a deadout from a large hive.  I got a little over 70 lbs of honey.  The bees didn't fair so well unfortunately.  They were very gentle dark bees(looked like Russians or Carnies).  My first foray with a beevac proved quite disasterous, sucked up too many bees that had honey on them.  I did get the queen(quite a beauty) and two full medium frames of brood. 

The problem came because of the arrangement of the hive.  The comb was running parallel with the wall section so I had to cut through several layers of capped honey to get to the combs that actually had bees.  Coming from the outside probably would've been better but there was a giant rotten sliding barn door seized in it's track(which the bees were using as an entrance) so it's wasn't an option.

So now I'm left with an anemic fourth hive to try to nurse into shape for winter.  It's a good thing I love a challenge  grin

P.S.  Thanks to Beedad for the assist.
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G3farms
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« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2009, 08:51:21 PM »

sounds like you had fun anyway.

What kind of vac are you using?

I hope they will make it alright, there is still plenty of time for them to come out of it.

G3
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see my swarms and cut outs at https://www.youtube.com/user/soapy22bullet?feature=mhee

those hot bees will have you steppin and a fetchin like your heads on fire and your @ss is a catchin!!!

Bees will be bees and do as they please!
JP
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« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2009, 08:56:53 PM »

You have the queen, you may need to take some bees from another hive and use them for re-enforcements while waiting for brood to hatch, but with her, you saved the colony's genetics and that was your primary goal to begin with, so excellent job!


...JP
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fermentedhiker
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« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2009, 09:03:23 PM »

Thanks guys. 

It's the Walter Kelley beevac, same as JP and Bailey.

You're right about giving them some help I think JP.  I'll probably wait until they settle in and try the location swap with one of my hives.  It did wonders for the struggling NUC I had(now my most populous hive).
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G3farms
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« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2009, 09:19:19 PM »

Not knocking your vac in the least, but that is why I like robos vac design with the hive body and frames. Once the bees are sucked in they have some where to go and stand and can clean themselves off (at least that is what I think). I don't let my vac run any longer than necessary and if I feel they are getting too hot just slide the top cover open. With the other vac design they just get piled on top of each other and if they are honey covered, all of them will be shortly.

That is just my opinion and what works for me.

G3
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see my swarms and cut outs at https://www.youtube.com/user/soapy22bullet?feature=mhee

those hot bees will have you steppin and a fetchin like your heads on fire and your @ss is a catchin!!!

Bees will be bees and do as they please!
joker1656
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« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2009, 09:19:46 PM »

probably a dumb question to some, but how does it affect the bees negatively to have honey on them?  Is it the fact that the honey kind of atomizes and coats them?  

Nice work, nonetheless.  Glad that it went well.  Are there pics?    Smiley
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fermentedhiker
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« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2009, 09:29:15 PM »

probably a dumb question to some, but how does it affect the bees negatively to have honey on them?  Is it the fact that the honey kind of atomizes and coats them?  

Nice work, nonetheless.  Glad that it went well.  Are there pics?    Smiley

They turn into a sticky pile of dead bees.  I hope to have pics to show soon.  Beedad's wife Steph took pictures with her camera and is sending them to me.  I'll post 'em as soon as I have them.
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fermentedhiker
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« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2009, 09:36:04 PM »

Not knocking your vac in the least, but that is why I like robos vac design with the hive body and frames. Once the bees are sucked in they have some where to go and stand and can clean themselves off (at least that is what I think). I don't let my vac run any longer than necessary and if I feel they are getting too hot just slide the top cover open. With the other vac design they just get piled on top of each other and if they are honey covered, all of them will be shortly.

That is just my opinion and what works for me.

G3

Never having used Robo's design I can't compare the two.  I don't really see how having the frames would stop the fatalities.  To be honest this was a cutout were the beevac should have probably stayed in the truck.  I had to cut through too many combs of capped honey so there was honey dripping all over everything.  Even though I was being careful not to suck up and honey.  The bees themselves got coated with honey before I vacuumed them up.  I'm not saying anything against Robo's design either though.  I had considered building it, but the cutout came up on short notice so I went with one I could purchase on short notice.
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G3farms
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« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2009, 09:40:12 PM »

Not for sure but I think when they get stuck together they will over heat and maybe can't breath.

Just think of you and 100 other people coated in honey and then stuck together, going to get pretty hot.................and get you mind out of the gutter grin grin

I can't say anything bad about Kelley's vac because I have never used it either, that is why I said just my opinion. I built robo vac because I had a little time on my hands and some scrap wood. Like I said not knocking yours at all, never even used it.

G3
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see my swarms and cut outs at https://www.youtube.com/user/soapy22bullet?feature=mhee

those hot bees will have you steppin and a fetchin like your heads on fire and your @ss is a catchin!!!

Bees will be bees and do as they please!
joker1656
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« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2009, 10:20:17 PM »

Hey, hey, hey....! My mind was not in the gutter.  I just thought if it was the right ladies...well, Ok...maybe my mind was a little bit on the curb, but not clear into the gutter.  LOL   cool

Anyway, that answers my question.  I kinda thought that was the reason.

nice work, fermented.  Cutouts are pretty rewarding, when they turn out well.  I hope your queen springs into action and everything falls into place.   
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JP
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« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2009, 01:08:24 PM »

I did a cut out just the other day and honey was dripping everywhere, the bees were sopping it up. I vacuumed two inner boxes of bees, but gave them extra room to account for heat and bees filled with honey.

Lost maybe 6-7 bees, which surprised me, but I knew from experience you have to give them much more room when its hot out or they will become overheated, regurgitate and die.

...JP
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fermentedhiker
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« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2009, 12:03:42 AM »

Some pics as promised.










JP I wasn't overcrowding them in the vac, so I must have done something else wrong.  Even this past wed when I went back to vacuum up the stragglers I lost probably 20 or so and I was only vacuuming a couple hundred bees.  I guess I'll have to play with it some more.
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Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
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JP
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I like doing cut-outs, but I love catching swarms!


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« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2009, 08:22:35 AM »

fermentedhiker, I don't know if you did anything wrong, I think some bees may perhaps get more stressed than other bees and regurgitate, can't really explain why some make it, some don't.

One thing worth mentioning is how long they are in the vac, without it running. When its hot and lots of honey has been spilled and you know the bees have gorged themselves, perhaps try getting the inner boxes out of the vac box as soon as possible to allow them to ventilate as quickly as you can, this may cut down some of those losses.


...JP
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"Good friends are as sweet as honey" Winne the Pooh

My pictures can be viewed at http://picasaweb.google.com/pyxicephalus
and
http://picasaweb.google.com/112138792165178452970

My Youtube videos can be viewed here: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=JPthebeeman&aq=f

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Scott Derrick
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« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2009, 12:58:22 PM »

I know I'm but late on this post but thought I'd post my two cents worth. One thing I work very hard to do with my cutouts is to keep all the honey uncut until I have the majority of the bee out of the hive. I know it is difficult to do at time but I want to save as many bees as possible knowing that I will lose some in the end. I always evaluate the job after it's open to decide where to start cutting. From experience I know that sucking up honey coated bees will increase my kill percentage. One thing I have actually done when I cut the honey by mistake is to stop and give the bees time to seal or clean up the mess before I continue. It typically doesn't take too long for them to do it. They will normally clean the cut cells as well as each other. There are some jobs were you just can help but have a high kill percentage. I have had a couple of those this year.

All the best!
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fermentedhiker
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« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2009, 01:32:32 PM »

I know I'm but late on this post but thought I'd post my two cents worth. One thing I work very hard to do with my cutouts is to keep all the honey uncut until I have the majority of the bee out of the hive. I know it is difficult to do at time but I want to save as many bees as possible knowing that I will lose some in the end. I always evaluate the job after it's open to decide where to start cutting. From experience I know that sucking up honey coated bees will increase my kill percentage. One thing I have actually done when I cut the honey by mistake is to stop and give the bees time to seal or clean up the mess before I continue. It typically doesn't take too long for them to do it. They will normally clean the cut cells as well as each other. There are some jobs were you just can help but have a high kill percentage. I have had a couple of those this year.

All the best!

I agree that saving the removal of the capped honey for after would've been best.  Just not an option with this hive.  I had to come from the inside and the bees were mostly against the outside wall.  I had to cut through 3 layers of capped honey just to find them.  This is partly because this hive was MUCH larger than the bees could cover.  It was a large hive last year that died out over the winter and these bees were a swarm that moved in three weeks ago.  I actually didn't see more than 20 bees until I was almost 40 minutes into the cutout.  They were just getting started at rebuilding their numbers.

On a positive note the survivor seem to be doing well in their new home.  I placed them in an 8 frame setup with a couple frames of capped honey and the two frames of capped brood that I salvaged from the cutout.  They are busy foraging and haven't been subject to being robbed by the much stronger hives I have near them.  I'm not going to open them up to check on them for a couple weeks to give them time to get established.  I would think having your home thoroughly disturbed twice in as many weeks might convince them that absconding would be good idea.  I'll take some pics and post them when I do the inspection.

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