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Poll
Question: Which do you think is a BETTER system
9 Frame Super using frame spreader to build deeper cells - 11 (45.8%)
10 Frame Super - letting the frames themselves do the spreading - 13 (54.2%)
Total Voters: 23


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Author Topic: 9 frames or 10?  (Read 7387 times)
Rabbitdog
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« on: March 29, 2005, 12:25:47 PM »

How many frames should I be using in the brood box.  I have some with 9 and some w/ 10.  It sure is easier to inspect with 9 but I've read conflicting reports.
Y'all make the call!
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Beth Kirkley
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« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2005, 12:39:17 PM »

Some people go with 9 frames, but you need to space them just the right distance from eachother. They have a tendency to put burr/bridge comb inbetween the frames when you do 9. You can help to eliminate some of that by letting them make comb most of the way (not to capping point) on 10 frames, then take out one and space them right.

It's said they'll build deeper combs that way.

Beth
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Finsky
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« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2005, 01:06:25 PM »

It depends, what is the width of the box.  One frame need space  25 mm + gap 10 mm. Total = 35 mm.

10 frames need  35 cm + 10 mm extra space.  

If your box is 32,5 cm, it is for 9 frames  (36 cm - 3,5 cm)


It is nothing to do with "easy to tseck", because the goal is to get so much frames to hive as possible.  10 frames x 6 box = 60 frames per hive.

I have both boxes, for 9 and 10.

In farrar supers I use 8 frames intead of 9 to get thicker honey combs.
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leominsterbeeman
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« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2005, 01:36:25 PM »

i would suggest going with 10.  the objective in the brood chamber is to raise brood and to keep the brood warm and feed them, and to raise as much brood as possible.   With ten frames , you get more brood than with 9.    

9 is good for the honey supers, provided they are already drawn out.
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BigRog
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« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2005, 01:45:12 PM »

And Beth likes 11

lol
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Finsky
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« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2005, 02:00:54 PM »

I like 70 frames per hive. shocked

I use just national standard I like.  It is not love question to me.

In 1852, L. L. Langstroth, a Congregational minister from Pennsylvania, patented a hive with movable frames that is still used today. The principle upon which Langstroth based ........

It took 100 years to arrive in Finland.
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« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2005, 02:05:47 PM »

I agree with leominsterbeeman, sounds like he nailed it from my point of view.
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« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2005, 02:42:45 PM »

Quote from: leominsterbeeman
i would suggest going with 10.  the objective in the brood chamber is to raise brood and to keep the brood warm and feed them, and to raise as much brood as possible.   With ten frames , you get more brood than with 9.    

9 is good for the honey supers, provided they are already drawn out.


The only thing I would change here is to insert the word "strongly" in between the words would and suggest!

The brood nest is not only where they raise brood, but also store pollen and honey for brood raising to have easily on hand to feed the brood nest. Don't mess with the brood nest! Did I say brood nest enough times in this post? cheesy
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Beth Kirkley
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« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2005, 05:33:01 PM »

Now don't go confusing the newbies BigRog. Smiley

For anyone that does not know already, I only use 11 frames because I messed up when making my hives. So I have too much space for 10 frames, but 11 fit great. My goof ended up giving me an added frame. Smiley

Beth
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2005, 08:48:31 PM »

I didn't vote.  I can't answer the question in the poll because the location of the frames isn't specified.  Not to mention the number I put in isn't on the list.  Smiley

In the brood chamber I prefer to shave 1/16" off both sides of the end bars and put in 11 frames in a ten frame box or 9 frames in an eight frame box.  In the supers I prefer 9 frames in a ten frame box (or sometimes eight if I have some nice drawn comb) or 7 frames in an eight frame box.

When I've let the bees build their own comb at their own spacing the brood is about 1 1/4" on center and the honey is about 1 1/2" on center.  If I give them 1 1/2" centered frames they build larger cells than when I give them 1 1/4" spaced frames.  It appears that the bees building the comb assume the purpose based on the spacing and based on thier preception of the purpose decide on the size of the cells to build.
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2005, 09:05:58 PM »

I build my own boxes a little larger than normal, and I am now experimenting with another size and making my own frames, different than any I have seen and bases on M. Bushes 1 1/4 width.

And who has a really long brood chamber? Holds over twenty frames?
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Beth Kirkley
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« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2005, 11:03:29 PM »

I have a long brood chamber on one of my hives. It holds about 24 frames. It's long enough that I can fit two regular size supers above it.

Beth
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2005, 12:00:51 PM »

My long hives are three boxes wide (48 3/4") and medium depth and hold 33 standard frames.  Smiley  I like them a lot.  For pictures, check my web site.  I also have a few double wide ones in deeps or Dadant deeps.

http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bush/bush_bees.htm
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Michael Bush
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Finsky
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« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2005, 01:22:51 PM »

I use leominsterbeeman system.
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justgojumpit
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« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2005, 02:02:20 PM »

I have never seen the bees raise brood on the outer frames.  they just store honey there.  I have converted from ten frame to nine frame, because the hive boxes are just a little tight for ten frames.  They fit in when everything was new, but propolis is starting to make that a little more difficult.  Now, when it comes to the bees using the frames to store honey for winter, they can actually fit more in 18 frames (two deeps, nine frames each) than they can in 20, because you remove one beespace per hive body.  That's 3/4 inch times the area of a deep frame of pure honey that you are adding into your hive for overwintering!  

justgojumpit
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gsferg
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« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2005, 10:15:40 AM »

OK, I've got a question... The general concensus seems to be to use 10 frames (more brood) in brood bodies. I've already set up 3 of my 5 hives (and installed the bees) with 9 frames in the brood chamber(s). Is it worth while at this point to convert over to 10 frames? I've used those tin 9 frame spacers, the easiest way to go to 10 would be to setup new boxes and move all the frames into them- a hassle, and an annoyance to the bees who are just getting situated (hived yesterday).

Opinions? Is it worth the effort?

George-
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Chad S
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« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2005, 12:49:30 PM »

If you just installed the Bees I wouldn't mess with them for a while.  You have all season to figure out 9 frames v. 10 frames.  Adding a frame should not be a big deal un-less you have a built in spacer for 9 frames.
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gsferg
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« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2005, 03:26:48 PM »

Chad- Leaving them bee would be my tendancy at this time too and yes, I'm using 9-frame spacers so it's not just a matter of sliding things over and inserting another frame, I'd have to pull them all, remove the spacer and put them back or- move them into another brood body without the spacers. Either way it's an annoyance to the bees which are just getting comfy.

Like the person that just replied, my boxes would be pretty tight with 10 frames.. they'd fit, but getting them in/out would be a lot more difficult and I'd be rolling bees in the process.

I do have 2 more hives for which I'm expecting nucs any day now, perhaps I'll set THEM up with 10 frames and perform an experiment!!

Great Idea!

Thanks,

George-
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2005, 12:25:35 PM »

You can easily take a frame out of 10 frames and space the 9 out.  You can't easily add a frame if they have drawn it for 9 frames because they will draw honey sticking out and that will not have a beespace when you squeeze them back together.  If the drew it as 9 I would leave it alone for now.  It's one of the reasons I don't like 9 frames in the brood chamber.  They won't draw the face out consistent and if you juggle the frames around you end up with honey sticking out blocking some brood emerging somewhere.  I prefer to cut them down to 1 1/4" and put in 11.  Smiley
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Michael Bush
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SherryL
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« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2005, 08:46:01 PM »

I have 11 frames in my DE hives - more space, more bees, more honey is the theory.
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latebee
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« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2005, 09:09:48 PM »

My preference is 10 frames in the brood hives and 9 frames in the honey supers. I use the metal nine frame spacers nailed on top of the frame rests for the honey supers. Am still going to give the 20 frame long hive a try this year as soon as my nucs build up. Tell me again,why do some of you squeeze in eleven to a standard hive body? I think you would injure or kill a lot more bees rolling them between the tighter spaces-maybe even your queen!
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Horns Pure Honey
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« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2005, 10:53:30 PM »

I say 10 frames all the way, too much bur comb gets built without all of them in there. Smiley
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Joseph Clemens
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« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2005, 07:28:00 PM »

Quote from: Michael Bush
You can easily take a frame out of 10 frames and space the 9 out.  You can't easily add a frame if they have drawn it for 9 frames because they will draw honey sticking out and that will not have a beespace when you squeeze them back together.  If they drew it as 9 I would leave it alone for now.  It's one of the reasons I don't like 9 frames in the brood chamber.  They won't draw the face out consistent and if you juggle the frames around you end up with honey sticking out blocking some brood emerging somewhere.  I prefer to cut them down to 1 1/4" and put in 11.  Smiley


I agree completely with Michael Bush's description of the situation and I am working at shaving my end bars to 1-1/4" wide as I work at changing the genetics of my bees (but that's another story). Though, instead of an extra frame I plan to install slatted racks on the sides of the brood supers. I've already been testing this and have found that the queen will often lay even on the outside of the outermost combs, so with 11 combs you have 22 comb surfaces (usually 20 possible with brood) and with supers with racks you have 10 combs, 20 surfaces (20 possible with brood). Plus there is extra space for ventilation and bees. Sure it is a little more bothersome to build and install the racks, but I really love to tinker with the bees.

In honey supers I like to use 9 or often 8. About the same amount of honey in 8, 9, or 10, but I'd rather extract it from 8 rather than 10, saves a little bit of time and effort.
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