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Author Topic: The World's Most Inhumane Decision  (Read 5590 times)
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« on: March 29, 2005, 07:44:57 AM »

Here it is day 12 of Terri Shiavo's starvation to death - and you wonder why the rest of the world sees us as barbarians at times.

Meanwhile, a mass murderer like Timothy McVey kills 168 people in a building explosion in Oklahoma City and we give him the easy way out - leathal injection. This government sucks, there are no two ways about it - this could have and should have been handled better.

I just buried a Father-in-Law who spend 3 out of 5 weeks on a respirator, slowly fading away until death finally claimed him AFTER we respected his wishes and removed him from the respirator and pace maker than was keeping him alive.

Terri Shiavo was only being fed though, because she didn't have the ability to swallow on her own - the only "Life support" she had was nutrition.

This is/was cruel - I can only hope that by time YOU read this, she is passed. I would hope that someday THIS country gives fine and decent people the same right to a humane death that it gives it's mass murders - is THAT too much to ask?
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« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2005, 08:20:43 AM »

I agree totally John.

These same people that are supporting her state ordered execution by starvation and dehydration are the same folks that are so up in arms about sleep deprivation and such against the terrorist prisoners as inhumane.  

One would be arrested if you had an elderly animal to put down and you chose such an option.

I assume these people supporting her execution by such means would also support the same method for capital punishment.  Yea right!

BTW,  Where is John Kerry?  After all, he was going to make Christopher Reeves walk again with results of stem cell research.  Why not fight to keep Terri alive until she could be help by it as well?
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« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2005, 11:28:04 AM »

Personally if it were me, let me go.
Stem celll research isn't ever going to replace a entire brain, but it holds promise for many other treatments. She is not starving to death in the sense that she is hungry, only in the sense that she is not getting what she needs to survive, on a feeding tube one only gets what is needed for nutrition. I think Dr Kevorkian has it right. When it's time to go, go painlessly and quickly.

What intrigues me is the big uproar over this case, this happens everyday of every week.

BTW
Polls indicate that a vast majority of people agree on 2 things
One: She should be alowwed to die
Two: The goverment has no place in such decisions.
http://www.beemaster.com/beebbs/viewtopic.php?t=2348


Don't want this to happen to you or a loved one?
Time to make a living will, specify what your choices are.
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« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2005, 12:31:10 PM »

Robo:

Good point.... Imagine if you had a dog tied up in the back yard in the condition that they have allowed Terri Shiavo to be in the last 12 day, the ASPCA, Animal Control and the Sherriff would be SO on your case you'd see the inside of a jail cell facing a battery of charges.

Rog:

Honestly, I don't know if she feels hunger or thirst - I know we have all kind of faith in doctors and expect them to know what they are talking about.

But a simple case of the Left hand not knowing what the Right is doing: minutes before being removed from the respirator, a sincere enough doctor explained that it could/should only take minutes but "FOR REASONS THEY CANNOT EXPLAIN" often patients can live for days and longer.

He asked us to wait in the Critical care waiting area and someone would notify us when he passed. 55 minutes later a nurse walked in, asked us to come to the nurse's desk and explained "I'm sorry, I didn't know anyone was waiting in the waiting room - I called your homes to notify you of your father's passing - nearly 40s earlier.

As you can see, my wife and Brother-in-Law waited more than 40 minutes longer than neccessary because a doctor did not explain to his staff that family was waiting and it wasn't until my Brother-in-Laws wife explained that WE were at the hospital, that we were finally notified. 40 minutes in a waiting room waiting for someone to take their last breath is a long time - especially if it were unavoidable.

So I don't have MUCH faith in Doctors, no matter HOW MANY you stack in a pile and no matter how many agree on what people can and cannot experience when their brains are damaged, but still conscience (at least in the fact they are NOT in a coma, as is generally thought).

We have all seen how STROKE victums, etc., have different parts of their brains take over control over damaged areas - who is to say that Terri didn't have a degree of awareness that she could not communicate.

I had a brother who for 21 years of his life suffered Cerebral Palsy, unable to talk, walk, feed or change himself - he couldn't as much as hold a pen. But his mind was as sharp as mine or yours, it was the communications from the brain thru the nerve-stem and spinal cord that was damaged. Every day was a challenge for all of my family, but with love and care he lived 4 times the life span expected of him at birth.

The fact is, we are Americans - we don't starve people to death - at least I didn'[t think so, unless there was a living will that requested NO NUTRITION - that is a totally different story. I think no matter how bizzarre, we should always respect the wishes of the patient, but when there are no set rules - then being humane is what should always be done.

If the intent is to let her die, then by God's Glory, give her the same humane and swift treatment you give the scum of the Earth that awaits lethal injection on Death Row. Thank God she should be dead soon - and I realize that EVERY DAY in hospitals around the world people are dying very much the same way - but hopefully (for what ever reason) it was the WISH of the person to go that way.

I'm not too proud of the government today - too many memories and emotions, both resent and past are stirred over this topic. It's just a shame Jeb Bush couldn't ship her off to Texas, when the State gives you a DEATH SENTENCE in Texas, you don't live 15 years and you surely don't go out as if you were trapped in the rubble of the Twin Towers without food or water for 2 darn weeks.
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« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2005, 01:37:53 PM »

She was not going to improve. Scans showed in 2000 and 2002 that there was no activity in the cerebral cortex. That means no conscious actions. I ddisagree with the method of her death, but I believe it was what she wanted. She said this to her husband and to a friend after watching a movie where someone was being kept alive "No tubes for me." To me that speaks volumes.This entire thing has been blown out of proportion and is being used for a specific political agenda. There was talk about how her husband was only in it for the money, well better than a decade in the hosp and the legal costs, there's no profit motive there.
I truly believe that he is acting on what he feels what his wife would have wanted. These same people would have keep someone on a respirator alive, wouldn't it be just as cruel, they could argue, to deny someone breath? At what point do we draw the line. What scares me is that extremists are trying to hijack this country.

The lesson here is to make your plans in writing, have people who love you and who you trust appointed to carry out your wishes and hope that you don't come to the attention of the people who made this a circus.
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« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2005, 03:01:07 PM »

Quote from: BigRog

What intrigues me is the big uproar over this case, this happens everyday of every week.

BTW
Polls indicate that a vast majority of people agree on 2 things
One: She should be alowwed to die
Two: The goverment has no place in such decisions.


I think what is making this case such an issue is the sleaze ball husband.  He has done nothing to indicate he has her best intentions in mind.

You think it was also her wish to:

1)not have any rehabilitation?
2)have her cats euthanized?
3)not receive antibiotics for urinary infections?
4)have him live with and have 2 children with another women for the last 10 years? (This would be considered common law wife and grounds for divorce in any other situation)

Why did it take seven years for him to come to the realization she didn't want to live like this?

As far as the poll,  I have no faith that  90% of the people even know any of the facts.  I listen to talk radio, and once a week they go out on the streets of NYC and ask simple questions like who is the president , vice president, etc.  It is astonishing how stupid Americans are.  The best ones are when they ask current events like what is a Tsunami.  

I do agree that most Americans, myself included, believe in the right to die.  But there is so much stuff that just reaks in this case.  

I am not a doctor,  but  regardless of what you believe is her condition, there are doctors on both sides, and compelling testimony from nurses that cared for her that makes me believe that one judge who never spent any time with her,  should be the only one in the decision to execute her.  Just like with death sentenced inmates,  when there is any doubt, err on the side of life.  Or at least have a 2nd judge review the fact.    I think the arrogance of the judical system is what has people upset.  Where are the checks and balances on the judical system?

Any question why the liberals are stone walling every Bush nominated judge?  They now they can't legislate by winning elections, thats why they are trying to do it through the bench.


Quote from: BigRog

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Absolutely!!
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« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2005, 03:27:01 PM »

The liberals are stonewalling our President because he is trying to get judges in who will legislate from the bench. You know, like the chief justice who advocated torture.
As for the husbands actions he hung in there for five years and prob exhuasted his resources and I'm sure that it was a great emotional toll. How long was he supposed to go without human companionship? There have been many allegations about him but none have ever been proven.
What this ios about is the religous right trying to make the Good Ol' US of A a theocracy. You cannot legislate your way into heaven nor can you legislate anyone elses way in. It is up to the individual to accept jesus or not. PERIOD end of statement.
As far as her cats, I searched but couldn't find any reference to this could you point me to a refernce? THere has been a lot of unsubstanciated stuff going around on this. I don't know why of if he did this nor do I think it has any bearing on this. Did her parents offer to take the cats?


Unfortunatly the drs who actually exaimed her with the exception of one paid by her parents all agree that there is nothing going on there. This will be proven because the husband is ordering a autopsy and then the world will know exactly how much brain function there was. Hmm, sounds like he had something to hide.
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« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2005, 03:46:18 PM »

I know I'm milking this issue. It is worth a few final thoughts (after Robo mentioned NYC and also Talk Radio) which I am a huge listener of - you will find about 1 gig of music in my computer and a link to about 30 talk shows, many aired on WOR-AM or WABC-AM.

The Michael Savage show (syndicated) mentioned a nurse in the hospice who notice Terri sweating, in tremors and showing signs of near insulin comatic trama. She (the nurse) swore a statement that she found needle marks under each breast of Terri, and an empty bottle of insulin with all prints wiped clean in the trash can in the room MINUTES after the dirtbag husband left the room.

She was immediately given glucose paste to raise her sugar level which was dropping to nearly 20 when immediately tested within the visit of the husband.

I agree, this man has more to gain with Terri dead than alive - whether it is getting this "Wife" of out his life so he can go about with the new family he created while the "Love of his life" and "The woman he would gladly give his own life to save"  lies there in this waking coma like state - HE IS FULL OF BULL and can not be trusted, his means are questionable and THAT plays more into Terri's parents wanting her to live than keeping their daughter in this living limbo where most people say she is no longer there and others argue that a glimmer of acknowledgment still exists.

All I know is what separates her from "living" is NOT air or heart pump, or dialasys - it is simple nutrition. I never thought of food as being an ARTIFICIAL LIFE SUPPORT ITEM - although I offer the following.

I have a living will which specifies that:

*If I am TERMINAL but conscience, I want nutrition and pain medication.
*If I am in a coma and terminal, I shall receive NO nutrition, but will receive pain medication.
*If I am terminal and my basic life function stops, NO CPR or other life savings means will be administered.

My point in my wishes is that I don't want to die hungry and in pain.

I just watched a friend die at 39 years of age, even in his last days he could eat and enjoyed anything that his stomach would accept. He was controlled with pain meds to the end and died on a full stomach - at some point we have to accept that death is near, but we need to try and remain as HUMAN as possible.

Terri Shiavo will die - for 12 days she has been starved and all but left to die like - whether she is conscience of it or not, we are doing the WRONG THING. We wouldn't do this to an enemy of our country, someone charged with high acts of treason, there is no crime in our land that offers such an inhumane punnishment. I'm not saying that we shouldn't torture the scum that clutters our prisons, I don't give two spits for the lives of those who have committed attrocities against man. But where does anyone see how Terri Shiavo has earned this slow, needless death sentence?

What her family, not the scumbucket husband, but the mother and father and siblings have endured - 15 years, I agree it is time to end the sufferring if nothing can be done - but if Karma exists, I pity all those who have dealt this horrible end to a sad sad story.

I need to end my writing on this: I think I have said all I can on the topic. Why couldn't the state just give her a simple overdose of something and send her on the journey to where ever she is destined to go - but not to be a martyr of so many causes that your heads will spin.
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« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2005, 06:02:04 PM »

What I find interesting is that if this nurse found this stuff, where is the needle and the empty bottle of insulin?
I'm sure that ol' Jeb would have pressed charges.
THe husband has been offered millions for tv and book deals
Turned them all down. He was also offered $1,000,000 by the parents to let them have her. Turned them down. Apparently not about money.

Where were the parents when she had the eating disorder that caused this situation? Where was the husband?
Well people who are doing this stuff get to be experts at fooling those close to them.

NO COURT HAS SEEN EVIDENCE OF WRONGDOING BY THE HUSBAND

If I am wrong please correct me.

But if they found that he had done something wrong don't you think that somewhere in the course of 30 (that's right THIRTY) trials there would have been some proof?

It even says in the bible and I am praphrasing, "when a woman leaves her family" she becomes part of her husbands family. Even by the bible the parents have no standing.


Prove one of the allegations against him.
The parents financed by the right to life movement pretty much had unlimited resouces and NEVER proved a thing.

He is also ordering a autopsy which will say what function her brain was capable of.

Doesn't sound like a man who was hiding something.
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« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2005, 06:10:05 PM »

BTW
I feel for the parents, losing a chiild must be the worst thing that can happen to one.
I feel for Terry, sad that she had a body image that wouldn't let her live in peace.
But I really feel for the husband. I honestly feel he is a man of consience. He is doing what he thinks Terry would have wanted. For that he has had his life torn apart, been villafied and made to defend over and over and over what had to be a painfull decision to carry out his wifes wishes.
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« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2005, 06:39:39 PM »

Rog:

Trust me when I believe that the civil suits to follow will be staggering.

As far as the evidence, I suggest going to the www.GrudgeReport.com or www.thesmokinggun.com for some detailed stuff - I highly doubt that Michael Savage pulls this stuff out of his rectum - he has sources that hold up and they are often two of his favorite.

The bottle, which supposedly WAS recovered was empty and printless. That fact an insultin bottle alone would be found in her room is one thing (remember INSULIN in most states can be bought over the counter) it is in NJ, you only need a script for needles.

But the bottle isn't as interesting to me as the fact it had NO PRINTS, prints of a nurse would be on file but this one was empty, thus handled and should have prints. You could argue Latex or mitrile gloves may have been used, but supposedly NO INSULIN was missing from inventory - and THAT is really interesting.

I'm really only writing on your one point: losing a child. My Mom and Dad lost their son at 21 - my Mother never recovered emotionally from this - I blame most of her physical illnesses over the years on this mentally crippling event. Nope - losing a child is NOT the way we are designed for - people do lose their kids everyday, car accidents, war, a million reasons - but it is never easy. I think though (speaking for me) I couldn't imagine what toll it takes on a human to see their grown child, all but abandoned by the man who vowed to love and care for her, lay there like that.

He's no darn good Rog, just my opinion - but a couple of kids and a woman that he cohabs with while he supposedly cares so much for his sickly wife - s total bull and he is a peice of dog crap. No matter how you fall on this issue, you need to separate HIM from the issue and realize that FEW OF US would do as this sleaze has done.
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« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2005, 08:18:51 PM »

Quote from: BigRog

NO COURT HAS SEEN EVIDENCE OF WRONGDOING BY THE HUSBAND

If I am wrong please correct me.

 
The court (Judge Greer) has not allowed, or ignored any evidence that would prove otherwise.
Quote from: 1993 guardianship hearing

The judge then appointed a guardian ad litem, Richard Pearse, to investigate Michael’s fitness as guardian and to make a recommendation about Terri’s feeding tube. Pearse interviewed the various parties, including doctors, and issued his report in December 1998 recommending against Michael’s fitness as guardian and against removing Terri’s feeding tube.
After February 1993, Mr. Schiavo’s attitude concerning treatment for the ward apparently changed. [In January 1993 he received the $1.6 million award].... It is apparent to me that he has reached a point that he has no hope of the ward’s recovery and wants to get on with his own life. [Michael] admitted to the guardian ad litem that he had at least two romantic involvements after Terri’s collapse. [Schiavo was already living with his current girlfriend, with whom he has two children.]
In February 1999, Felos filed a “suggestion of bias” against Pearse and demanded he be removed as guardian ad litem. The judge then hearing the case, Bruce Boyer, took no action on Felos’s “suggestion of bias” or on Pearse’s report. In April of that year, Pearse filed a request that he either be given further instructions or discharged. He reiterated his concerns about Michael’s guardianship and also noted that there would be due process difficulties if the case proceeded to trial without Terri having an independent guardian ad litem. Judge Boyer discharged Pearse without appointing a successor.

The case then proceeded to trial before Judge Greer, who also refused to appoint a new guardian ad litem to represent Terri’s interests in the case.


  I have heard 2 nurses on talk radio that made sworn testimony in the trial and the judge threw it out.  Both of these nurses (whom never worked, talked or met each other before the trial) both cared for Terri at some point had strikingly similiar stories about how she was not  to get anything without her husbands permission.  Both cliamed that after his visits (which were always behind closed doors) Terri would be tensed right up with hands clentched and it would take hours to calm her back down.  And yes, both of these nurses would not speculate on the insulin injections, but did have instances of her showing signs of hypoglycemia after her husband left.  Part of the problem is that anytime a care facility showed any sign of concern or question of his direction, he would move her to another facility.
Quote from: BigRog

But if they found that he had done something wrong don't you think that somewhere in the course of 30 (that's right THIRTY) trials there would have been some proof?

You mean 1 (YES ONE) trial where some of the facts where reviewed 6 years ago and 29 trials that refused to revist the facts or allow any newly discovered fact within the last 6 years to be evaluated.
Quote from: BigRog

The parents financed by the right to life movement pretty much had unlimited resouces and NEVER proved a thing.

And I suppose Joe Lieberman, Jesse Jackson and Ralph Nader are part of this right wing conspiracy as well?
Quote from: BigRog

He is also ordering a autopsy which will say what function her brain was capable of.

Oh how gracious of him.  Why won't he allow an MRI or PET scan or any tests for that matter.  Afraid they might show she does have brain functions left.

I'm sorry Rog,  I have to agree with John again.  This guy shows no level of compassion that any of us would afford our loved ones even if we knew the end was near.  Would you not want your loved one to be as comfortable as possible until the time came.  Why was she not permitted to be taken outside for sunshine?  Was was one nurse threatened with dismissal because she was allowing Terri to suck fruit juice from a towel?  He basically disallowed any physical contact by the nursing staff.  One nurse even claimed he bought his girlfriend in and introduced Terri as his dead wife.  He was also overheard saying Die B*tch on more than one occasion.

You really don't have a problem with one judge acting as jury, judge, and executioner six years ago who is refusing to review any new evidence?  Or all these other courts refusing to look at the fact and review the decision?

If there were even 2% of the allegations/new evidence in a capital punishnment case, the execution would be postponed indefinately until there was further review.  Is it really that intolerable to have someone take a second look at the facts?
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« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2005, 08:48:46 PM »

Quote from: BigRog
The liberals are stonewalling our President because he is trying to get judges in who will legislate from the bench. You know, like the chief justice who advocated torture.

Oh, so only liberal judges can be trusted enforcing the constitution.  That seems to be working real well in the 9th circuit court in California which is the most overturned court in recent times.  So even the nominations of judges with the "highest" rating of the ABA (a point the democrats use to harp on) is unacceptable if they are conservative?  It just seems mind boggling that no conservative judges are acceptable.  Next your going to say the constitution states seperation of church and state.........

Quote from: BigRog

As far as her cats, I searched but couldn't find any reference to this could you point me to a refernce? THere has been a lot of unsubstanciated stuff going around on this. I don't know why of if he did this nor do I think it has any bearing on this. Did her parents offer to take the cats?

Quote

In the 1993 guardianship hearing, Michael testified regarding his disposition of some of Terri’s property:

Attorney: What did you do with your wife’s jewelry?

Michael: My wife’s jewelry?

Attorney: Yeah.

Michael: Um, I think I took her engagement ring and her...what do they call it...diamond wedding band and made a ring for myself.

Attorney: What did you do with her cats?

Michael: Her cats were put to sleep on the advice of my mother-in-law.

The veterinarian who euthanized Terri’s pets came forward to say there was never any suggestion from Terri’s mother that this be done, and that it was done only at Michael Schiavo’s insistence.


Quote from: BigRog

Unfortunatly the drs who actually exaimed her with the exception of one paid by her parents all agree that there is nothing going on there. This will be proven because the husband is ordering a autopsy and then the world will know exactly how much brain function there was. Hmm, sounds like he had something to hide.

And if the autopsy shows she did have brain function? Then what?  Why is he denying any testing that would prove one way or the other BEFORE she is dead.

BTW, I also hear Dr. Hammesfahr on the radio the other day too.  He has spent more than 10 hours (most of the other doctors involved in the trial spent less than 90 minutues with her, far below the normal amount of time to accurately diagnose brain damaged patience) with Terri over the years.  If you have not read his statement I suggest you do.  Yes you can claim it's right winged biased or he is being paid.  But there is also evidence to tie the doctors saying she is brain dead to Kovorkian and human euthanasia movement, does that by any chance make their views biased?  The point is there is enough   debate on her true conditions.   Lets run all those tests her husband has refused, revist all the fact and then decide.  


OK Rog,  you can have the last word.... I'm done here. If I would only stick to my plans of staying out of the coffee house.
 cheesy
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« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2005, 09:06:32 PM »

Instead of being mad because the goverment won't step in and save one life be mad because they haven't saved thousands.

Bring our troops home, there has been no WMD found in over a year of searching. Sadum is in a jail cell and a new leader has been elected.

They can keep searching for Bin Ladin in Packistan and Afagainastain.

 Cheesy Al
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« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2005, 09:17:32 PM »

Al,

You forgot the part about thanking the French......
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« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2005, 06:23:27 AM »

I'm making a change in the language filter.... Starting midnight tonight the word FRENCH will be replace with STEAMING PILE OF DOG POOH

Most of the members won't see a difference anyways, and those who aren't sure what it refers to should catch on quickly  Cheesy
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taw
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« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2005, 08:23:11 PM »

This case spurred my wife and I to go get our living wills done. We should have done it ages ago. Especially after I bought my motorcycle. There will be (knock on wood) no question in my case. Don't feed me; don't respirate me; don't chemo me; etc. if I am in a terminal, brain dead, vegatative, or etc. state. Dear god - 15 years! What a horror - not that Terry really knew anything actually occurred or what was going on; she "died" 15 years ago. Me though... I have just ended the confusion. Hopefully, my wishes will be not in doubt.

We were fortunate to have a local cluster of law-firms in our area volunteer one day to do  living wills and answer all our questions and then notarize it for free - pro bono.

If you have not done this, I recommend it. You can do it yourself, but a lawyer can answer the legalese for you - my living will is 10 pages long. Also designate who makes the decisions and mail those people a copy of that will. I have a chain of three family members who will make medical decisions for me. End the confusion. My wife has a (I forget the proper nomenclature) Heath Care Power of Attorney as well.
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Kris^
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« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2005, 08:48:43 PM »

Quote from: Robo
You forgot the part about thanking the French......

. . . . for our Statute of Liberty.

-- Kris


PS -- Did I ever mention that our farm operates under the name "Jardins Magiques, Ltd."?
Of course, we'll always have Montreal . . . . sorry, Bogie    Smiley
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TVaughan
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« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2005, 07:44:46 AM »

The Statue of Liberty and our independent as a nation. The British were too powerful us, and we simply couldn't win the war without a French army and navy. There are 600 Frenchmen buried here who died fighting along side my direct ancestor who also fought in the Revolutionary War, and I have much more respect for them than I have for the two dozen neocons who got us into the Iraq war, especially as they mostly come from families who have recently immigrated from socialist Eastern European Jewish families who haven't got any of the same values as my family.

As to military intellegence, the French were right and we were wrong, there isn't any question about that. If we had followed the French, and Russian, and German, and Vatican etc... advice it would have been better, because ever since we followed the advice of the neocons there has been more terrorism, higher gas prices, and more American causualites.

So I agree with the other poster. Let's just get out.
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taw
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« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2005, 03:54:08 PM »

Without the French we more than likely would have lost the American Revolutionary War - they saved our butts in the Battle of Yorktown (which more or less ended the war) for example. It can probably be said that our relationship to France is like a marriage: we disagree on a lot of things, but in the end, neither one of us would be here without the other.

By the way, France went nearly bankrupt fighting for us during the American Revolutionary War.

We owe them a heap - and we certainly owe them more than the dismissal a lot of folks gave them over the Iraq issue. Very nearly the entire planet knew it was a horrible decision (I am ex-Army (9+ years on tanks) if that means anything). France wasn't the only one that disagreed, they were simply more vocal, and more influential.
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beemaster
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« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2005, 04:57:13 PM »

I think it's funny we need to go back to the Revolutionary War to find ANYTHING the French did worth mentioning. But I'll keep my mouth shut, this post after-all was about Terri Schiavo, I wouldn't disgrace her Murder with the few honorable acts of the Frence.

If only this forum allowed TRUE THREADING, we need to work on that one Lesli!!!
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NJBeemaster my YOUTUBE Video Collection
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Lesli
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« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2005, 08:38:23 PM »

Quote
TRUE THREADING, we need to work on that one Lesli!!!


OK, threading is next!
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Lesli
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Anonymous
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« Reply #22 on: April 10, 2005, 08:58:30 AM »

cry I Didn't bring up the French thing this time I do send my apologizes to those of French decent, the country of France, also Quebec for the work block which makes you a steaming pile of dog pooh.
You have been so labeled by some Americans for the decitions of your countrys leaders you were not given a choice of. There are still those of our Untied States who feel we owe a debit of thanks for our freedom to you. Some Also believe your countrys leaders had more forsight than ours which has cost us todate 1500 plus deaths and rising.

I still think we should not be mad because our goverment wouldn't interveen in the death of one person. We should be mad & demanding of our leaders, Stop the deaths. Mission accomplished now bring the troops home.
 cry Al
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