Need Bees Removed?
International
Beekeeping Forums
August 02, 2014, 01:04:28 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: Beemaster's official FACEBOOK page
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar bee removal Login Register Chat  

Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Trap Out from a concrete block wall  (Read 9018 times)
David LaFerney
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 924


Location: Cookeville, TN - U.S.A.


WWW
« on: July 03, 2009, 11:12:31 PM »



The bees have been inside this wall for 2-3 years according to the home owner.  Because they are entering behind the electric meter base I decided that the thing to do is to make them move the entrance.



Here is the setup - I knocked a 1 1/2" hole in the wall directly below the existing entrance in the same core area as the old one - as soon as I made the hole a few bees started coming out through it to investigate.  The brown piece of plywood with the hole is caulked and tacked to the blocks with small masonry nails.  I caulked around the meter base and any other suspicious looking holes in the area, and left it like this for a few days so that they could get used to using the new entrance.  The bait hive just contains empty frames with starter strips at this point.



About 3:00 PM Today I baited the hive with a frame of eggs / brood and a frame of stores along with the house bees clinging to the two frames and an inverted jar feeder of sugar water through the hole in the inner cover - then I added the trap out cone and the little wooden walkway so that they could walk over from the wall to the bait hive.  Within 2 minutes it looked like this - bees everywhere trying to get back into the old hive.



Within 15 minutes there was a steady stream of bees walking into the bait hive.



Soon there were several bees doing this number - which I understand disperses pheromones which mean "this is home."  I hung out for about 1 1/2 hours to make sure that they weren't going to find another way in.  I came back at dusk and most of the activity had calmed down with only a few bees still outside the hive looking around for the old entrance.  I even saw a few bees fly directly into the bait hive.

So far so good.  I'll keep you posted as this goes. 

By the way - thanks to everyone for all the great information and help.  I can imagine that before the internet and all the helpful people on forums like this that it would have been extremely unlikely that a first year bee keeper would have access to the information needed to do something like this.  Thanks.
Logged

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Samuel Clemens

Putting the "ape" in apiary since 2009.
iddee
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 5920

Location: Randleman, NC


« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2009, 12:08:01 AM »

Looking really good. Expect them to fill a frame a day or more with bees. Keep an eye on them and add another box or replace it with another trap hive when needed.

That's as good a first timer set up as I've seen.
Logged

"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
David LaFerney
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 924


Location: Cookeville, TN - U.S.A.


WWW
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2009, 12:41:17 AM »

Looking really good. Expect them to fill a frame a day or more with bees. Keep an eye on them and add another box or replace it with another trap hive when needed.

That's as good a first timer set up as I've seen.

Thanks - nothing to it once I read your tutorial on the subject.

So, since I'm using 8 frame mediums, plan to add a box in around 6-7 days?

I'm thinking that being as late as it is It would probably be best to just add boxes and try to end up with the best single hive that I can instead of going for multiple colonies?  I guess it depends on how fast and how long they come out of there. Hopefully that wall is also chock full of honey for them to rob out and store for winter. 

Anyway, my buddy is glad to see them coming out and not going back in.  They've been invading his pool room ever since it started.
Logged

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Samuel Clemens

Putting the "ape" in apiary since 2009.
David LaFerney
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 924


Location: Cookeville, TN - U.S.A.


WWW
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2009, 01:13:15 AM »

I just had an idea - I've seen the discussion about different ideas to catch the queen, but how about this:  Have the cone exit into a cage made out of queen excluders?  When the queen absconds if she was detained in such a device, and couldn't go either out or in there might be an oportunity to catch the swarm and the genetics of the feral hive.  In the mean time the workers would still be able to get out to the bait hive.

I just happen to have several wood bound metal excluders that I could try this with. 
Logged

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Samuel Clemens

Putting the "ape" in apiary since 2009.
Robo
Technical
Administrator
Galactic Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6391


Location: Scenic Catskill Mountains - NY

Beekeep On!


WWW
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2009, 03:40:01 AM »

Not to discourage you, but you will catch a ton of drones in your trap.  You need to have a plan to deal with them.
Logged

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison


David LaFerney
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 924


Location: Cookeville, TN - U.S.A.


WWW
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2009, 09:08:59 AM »

Not to discourage you, but you will catch a ton of drones in your trap.  You need to have a plan to deal with them.

That's a good point,but maybe not insurmountable.  I'm thinking of a cage about 3 inches thick with excluders for sides.  how about if the excluders detached pretty easily the drones could be freed every so often?  That would also make it easier to hive the swarm when the time came. 

One of the excluders could be left open until the bulk of the hive was already in the bait hive.  Knowing when that is might be a trick though.  What is a rule of thumb minimum time before the queen decides it's no longer a happenin' place?

It might very well be more trouble than it would be worth - although in this particular case the trapout is right on my way to work.  I was just brainstorming there.  Do you think it would work to catch the queen and absconding swarm?  It seems like the swarm would hang out as long as the queen was detained.
Logged

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Samuel Clemens

Putting the "ape" in apiary since 2009.
Robo
Technical
Administrator
Galactic Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6391


Location: Scenic Catskill Mountains - NY

Beekeep On!


WWW
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2009, 09:25:21 AM »

Give it a shot,  what do you have to loose.  Just keep a close eye on it and be ready for the unexpected (happens all the time in beekeeping tongue )   Keep us posted with updates and pictures.
Logged

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison


David LaFerney
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 924


Location: Cookeville, TN - U.S.A.


WWW
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2009, 05:03:04 PM »

It's been 8 days since I started the trap out, and thought you might like an update on how it's going.




As you can see today there are several (a dozen or more) capped queen cells on the frame of brood that I used to bait the hive - so far so good.  It doesn't look like this is going to be a very big trap out - so far they have only half filled the 8 frame medium hive that I'm using, and they have only built about 1 frame of new comb, but I can still see a slow trickle of bees coming out of the old hive. 

I don't know what would be reasonable to expect as far as how this hive might eventually build up before winter, but I'm pretty happy with how successful the trap out has worked, and the homeowner is happy to see that the bees really are coming out of his wall without a bunch of destruction.  So even if I do end up having to combine this with my other hive I'm glad that I went ahead with it.  So far.

I still haven't taken any real action on building a trap for the absconding swarm, but I figure I have at least this week to do something about it - if I have time.
Logged

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Samuel Clemens

Putting the "ape" in apiary since 2009.
asprince
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1693

Location: Fort Valley, Georgia


« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2009, 06:16:19 PM »

Looks good David! I started a trap out today. I plan to start a new topic and post pictures.

Steve
Logged

Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resembalance to the first. - Ronald Reagan
G3farms
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1485


Location: concord, tn


« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2009, 09:11:09 PM »

Looks like you have it going your way for the time being, just remember that they still have honey stores to rob out so I would not fret too bad about them not having any stores.

If you have two queen excluders make a box out of 1 x 4, 1 x 6 or what ever you have on hand, then put an excluder on each side. Now you have you catch box. Drill a hole in the side of one of the boards for your cone to stick into.

G3
Logged

see my swarms and cut outs at https://www.youtube.com/user/soapy22bullet?feature=mhee

those hot bees will have you steppin and a fetchin like your heads on fire and your @ss is a catchin!!!

Bees will be bees and do as they please!
David LaFerney
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 924


Location: Cookeville, TN - U.S.A.


WWW
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2009, 10:16:22 PM »

Looks like you have it going your way for the time being, just remember that they still have honey stores to rob out so I would not fret too bad about them not having any stores.

If you have two queen excluders make a box out of 1 x 4, 1 x 6 or what ever you have on hand, then put an excluder on each side. Now you have you catch box. Drill a hole in the side of one of the boards for your cone to stick into.

G3

I'm thinking of doing something like that, but I would like for the queen to be trapped in a hive box so that I don't take too much risk of losing her if I succeed in catching her to begin with.  How about a shallow box with an excluder on the bottom, and a regular hive box full of frames on top of that, topped off with a screened inner cover so that it could be inspected without turning them loose? 

Your idea would be simpler for sure, but I've never caught or hived a swarm, and I have no idea what the disposition of a caged swarm of absconding bees would be like.  Would they be likely to flee if they could?
Logged

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Samuel Clemens

Putting the "ape" in apiary since 2009.
David LaFerney
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 924


Location: Cookeville, TN - U.S.A.


WWW
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2009, 10:18:01 PM »

Looks good David! I started a trap out today. I plan to start a new topic and post pictures.

Steve

Please do, I'd like to see how yours goes.
Logged

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Samuel Clemens

Putting the "ape" in apiary since 2009.
G3farms
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1485


Location: concord, tn


« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2009, 12:03:22 AM »


I'm thinking of doing something like that, but I would like for the queen to be trapped in a hive box so that I don't take too much risk of losing her if I succeed in catching her to begin with.  How about a shallow box with an excluder on the bottom, and a regular hive box full of frames on top of that, topped off with a screened inner cover so that it could be inspected without turning them loose? 

Your idea would be simpler for sure, but I've never caught or hived a swarm, and I have no idea what the disposition of a caged swarm of absconding bees would be like.  Would they be likely to flee if they could?
[/quote]

not much to catching a swarm, not sure about absconding bees never thought about it like that. As far as fleeing off I don't think they would since the queen would be caught in the excluder.

G3
Logged

see my swarms and cut outs at https://www.youtube.com/user/soapy22bullet?feature=mhee

those hot bees will have you steppin and a fetchin like your heads on fire and your @ss is a catchin!!!

Bees will be bees and do as they please!
David LaFerney
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 924


Location: Cookeville, TN - U.S.A.


WWW
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2009, 12:19:37 AM »

not much to catching a swarm, not sure about absconding bees never thought about it like that. As far as fleeing off I don't think they would since the queen would be caught in the excluder.

G3

I'm not thinking that the swarm would desert the queen.  But, I'm just wondering if an absconding queen might act different than one in a regular swarm in that she wants to leave the area to get away from whatever made the old hive uninhabitable (a regular swarm would already be in the neighborhood they want when you find it), and when I try to get her from the trap cage to a hive she might take her crew and leave. If she is already in a hive I wouldn't have to chance it.  If anyone knows that isn't likely to be the case then a simple box with excluders on the sides would sure be a lot easier to build and monitor.
Logged

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Samuel Clemens

Putting the "ape" in apiary since 2009.
G3farms
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1485


Location: concord, tn


« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2009, 01:01:51 AM »

I see what you are saying, I don't know how they would be acting, I say like a swarm nice and easy.

Sounds like you got yourself a good project. Keep us informed on how you handle it and the outcome, I for one am curious.

G3
Logged

see my swarms and cut outs at https://www.youtube.com/user/soapy22bullet?feature=mhee

those hot bees will have you steppin and a fetchin like your heads on fire and your @ss is a catchin!!!

Bees will be bees and do as they please!
Nathen
New Bee
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 29

Location: Eatontown, NJ


« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2009, 03:56:13 PM »

If anyone knows that isn't likely to be the case then a simple box with excluders on the sides would sure be a lot easier to build and monitor.

Speaking strictly from common sense because I certainly don't have any knowledge of beekeeping, I would try the easy way first.  If that doesn't work, then I would try the more difficult way next time.  If you're gonna develop a method by trial and error, it makes the most sense to start with the easy trials......or maybe I'm just lazy.
Logged

-Nathen
G3farms
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1485


Location: concord, tn


« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2009, 04:56:32 PM »

This is just something we were kicking around. If you have any ideas throw them out, we are all ears.

G3
Logged

see my swarms and cut outs at https://www.youtube.com/user/soapy22bullet?feature=mhee

those hot bees will have you steppin and a fetchin like your heads on fire and your @ss is a catchin!!!

Bees will be bees and do as they please!
Robo
Technical
Administrator
Galactic Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6391


Location: Scenic Catskill Mountains - NY

Beekeep On!


WWW
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2009, 06:44:53 PM »

Depending on the size of the queen,  the excluder may not stop her.  Especially since she will not be laying and slimmed down.  Even laying queens can occasionally get thru the excluder and they aren't half as determined as this one will be.

good luck, will be interested in hearing how it goes.  We all know bees are never predictable Undecided
Logged

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison


Nathen
New Bee
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 29

Location: Eatontown, NJ


« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2009, 08:12:18 PM »

This is just something we were kicking around. If you have any ideas throw them out, we are all ears.

No, I'm sorry.  I wasn't trying to imply that I had any better ideas.  All I was saying was that if I had two options that I was kicking around, and one of them was easy to build (the queen excluder cage) and one was more difficult to build (the hive body trap), I would try the easy one first....mostly because I'm lazy.  If the queen flees when you try to transfer from the excluder cage to a hive body, so what?  You were going to lose her anyway if you did nothing, and now you know that the excluder cage doesn't work very well.  So next time you do a trap out, you try the hive body trap and see how that works out.  It also gives you a little extra time to build the hive body trap so you're not under the gun.

Of course, Robo gives a very good reason not to listen to me.  I should put a disclaimer in my signature that anything I post should be taken with a grain of salt because I most likely don't know what I'm talking about.
Logged

-Nathen
G3farms
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1485


Location: concord, tn


« Reply #19 on: July 12, 2009, 09:20:37 PM »

No need to appoligize. huh  I just thought if you had something else in mind throw it out there. I am always open to new or different ideas or thoughts, sometimes it makes the gears turn just a little more. No insult here for sure.

How about a cage with number 8 wire mesh on it then.

Robo is right about the queen slimming down before she swarms, makes it easier on her to fly plus she will have a reason. good call robo.

G3
Logged

see my swarms and cut outs at https://www.youtube.com/user/soapy22bullet?feature=mhee

those hot bees will have you steppin and a fetchin like your heads on fire and your @ss is a catchin!!!

Bees will be bees and do as they please!
David LaFerney
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 924


Location: Cookeville, TN - U.S.A.


WWW
« Reply #20 on: July 12, 2009, 09:40:16 PM »

Depending on the size of the queen,  the excluder may not stop her.  Especially since she will not be laying and slimmed down.  Even laying queens can occasionally get thru the excluder and they aren't half as determined as this one will be.

good luck, will be interested in hearing how it goes.  We all know bees are never predictable Undecided


Now you tell me.

Logged

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Samuel Clemens

Putting the "ape" in apiary since 2009.
David LaFerney
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 924


Location: Cookeville, TN - U.S.A.


WWW
« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2009, 01:35:22 PM »

Update on this trap out started on July 3 2009:

Part way through this trap out (after quite a lot of bees had moved into the bait hive) I realized that some of the bees were getting back in around and behind the conduit, boxes, and wires.  Because those places were hard to get at I used a can of great stuff to seal up every suspicious looking crack or hole that I could get at.  Iddee said I should have used silicone caulk, steel wool, rags or something else because they would probably tunnel through the foam and get back in again.  

After a few days I suspected that he was right and that they were getting back in so this past Monday morning I was poking around with my caulk gun to see if I could find for sure if they were or not.  While I was doing that a small bunch of bees came boiling out of the cone and flying around it:

Video on utube of bees "swarming" around trap out


I had to go on to work, and on the way it dawned on me that those were probably the last of the bees absconding from the hive.  When I went back by a few hours later they were gone - no bees coming out of the cone, and none trying to get back in like they had been pretty much all through the process.

Today - Friday I went back (about 10 AM on a sunny day) and put a simple cage made out of screen cloth (I'm all out of #8 hardware cloth) over the cone.  When I came back by about 45 minutes later there was only 1 bee in the cage. I figure he's either just emerged from remaining brood or some other lonely straggler.




On Monday I'm going to check again and if there isn't a significant number of bees coming out then I'm going to remove the cone and let them rob out the old hive.  Assuming that goes as planned I'm declaring this a successful trap out.

I learned this - before you do anything else caulk up ever little crack or hole that you can see no matter how small or hard to get at.

Logged

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Samuel Clemens

Putting the "ape" in apiary since 2009.
Nathen
New Bee
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 29

Location: Eatontown, NJ


« Reply #22 on: August 15, 2009, 08:34:04 PM »

So you didn't try your queen trap?
Logged

-Nathen
David LaFerney
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 924


Location: Cookeville, TN - U.S.A.


WWW
« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2009, 09:41:13 PM »

So you didn't try your queen trap?

No I didn't.  I wanted to but because the bees were getting back in I thought that would probably more or less reset the time period before they absconded.  I figured that as long as pollen and other stores were going in that the queen would probably keep laying, and not abscond.  In retrospect I guess I trapped out enough of the work force in the first week (or however long before they got back in) that they absconded about on schedule.

It boils down to this - because of lack of experience, and the mistake of not keeping them out securely to begin with I didn't know when to put it on.  I didn't want to leave it on for weeks and weeks because I would have to check it pretty much every day to keep from killing the drones and maybe the queen too.

Maybe next year.
Logged

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Samuel Clemens

Putting the "ape" in apiary since 2009.
David LaFerney
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 924


Location: Cookeville, TN - U.S.A.


WWW
« Reply #24 on: August 17, 2009, 09:24:44 PM »

I went this morning and took off the cone,  in a few minutes they went right to work robbing out the old hive:

Utube video of the robbing in progress.


Before I removed the cone I did an inspection, added a box of empty frames, and put on an entrance reducer in case another colony gets news of what's going on.

Logged

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Samuel Clemens

Putting the "ape" in apiary since 2009.
Animator
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 51

Location: Ft. Lauderdale area


WWW
« Reply #25 on: October 03, 2009, 11:01:34 AM »

This is a really interesting story to me. I have had many people offer me swarms in cinderblock and I always turn them down. I'm no handyman, and short of destroying the wall, there isn't much I can do to get at the bees. This was a great tale and pics. I am looking forward to the next update.
Mike
Logged
David LaFerney
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 924


Location: Cookeville, TN - U.S.A.


WWW
« Reply #26 on: October 03, 2009, 07:09:32 PM »

This is a really interesting story to me. I have had many people offer me swarms in cinderblock and I always turn them down. I'm no handyman, and short of destroying the wall, there isn't much I can do to get at the bees. This was a great tale and pics. I am looking forward to the next update.
Mike


Here's the update.  I don't know if I went into this before in this thread, but the first try at making a queen something went wrong (maybe she didn't return from the mating flight) and I had to give them another frame of eggs - which was successful and seems to have made a good queen. 

Anyway, the trap out - I let them rob out the old hive for a few days until they lost interest in it.  They didn't get very much honey, but I figured that if it was a small hive to begin with and after weeks of no stores coming in there probably just wasn't very much honey left to rob.  It looked to me like the job was done - no bees going in or out of the old hive in the middle of a sunny day when the other hive was working hard.  So, I came back after dark and took the hive home, and told the home owner that he needed to fill the block cavity with insulation, sand, mortar mix or something or sooner or later a swarm would probably move back in. 

Mission accomplished - so it seemed.  A few days later bees are going in and out of the block wall like nothing ever happened.  I'm not even trying to blame it on a swarm moving in - I'm pretty confident that I just didn't quite get the job done.  By this time it was late August - too late to have another go at it. 

The good news is that I get to try again in the spring - unless the weakened colony dies out over the winter which is entirely possible.  We didn't have a nectar flow after the end of June so they are very likely to starve which will accomplish the exact same thing for the homeowner.  If not, maybe I'll do better next spring with a little experience under my belt.

It's been interesting.  And the little hive that I got out of it has built up like gangbusters since the queen started laying.  I'm having to feed, and it's still a small hive - one cram packed 8 frame medium -  but with a little luck and TLC it should be able to get through our (usually) mild winter.
Logged

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Samuel Clemens

Putting the "ape" in apiary since 2009.
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Beemaster's Beekeeping Ring
Previous | Home | Join | Random | Next
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.624 seconds with 22 queries.

Google visited last this page August 01, 2014, 08:51:23 PM