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Author Topic: Trap Out from a concrete block wall  (Read 9535 times)
David LaFerney
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« on: July 03, 2009, 11:12:31 PM »



The bees have been inside this wall for 2-3 years according to the home owner.  Because they are entering behind the electric meter base I decided that the thing to do is to make them move the entrance.



Here is the setup - I knocked a 1 1/2" hole in the wall directly below the existing entrance in the same core area as the old one - as soon as I made the hole a few bees started coming out through it to investigate.  The brown piece of plywood with the hole is caulked and tacked to the blocks with small masonry nails.  I caulked around the meter base and any other suspicious looking holes in the area, and left it like this for a few days so that they could get used to using the new entrance.  The bait hive just contains empty frames with starter strips at this point.



About 3:00 PM Today I baited the hive with a frame of eggs / brood and a frame of stores along with the house bees clinging to the two frames and an inverted jar feeder of sugar water through the hole in the inner cover - then I added the trap out cone and the little wooden walkway so that they could walk over from the wall to the bait hive.  Within 2 minutes it looked like this - bees everywhere trying to get back into the old hive.



Within 15 minutes there was a steady stream of bees walking into the bait hive.



Soon there were several bees doing this number - which I understand disperses pheromones which mean "this is home."  I hung out for about 1 1/2 hours to make sure that they weren't going to find another way in.  I came back at dusk and most of the activity had calmed down with only a few bees still outside the hive looking around for the old entrance.  I even saw a few bees fly directly into the bait hive.

So far so good.  I'll keep you posted as this goes. 

By the way - thanks to everyone for all the great information and help.  I can imagine that before the internet and all the helpful people on forums like this that it would have been extremely unlikely that a first year bee keeper would have access to the information needed to do something like this.  Thanks.
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iddee
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« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2009, 12:08:01 AM »

Looking really good. Expect them to fill a frame a day or more with bees. Keep an eye on them and add another box or replace it with another trap hive when needed.

That's as good a first timer set up as I've seen.
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David LaFerney
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« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2009, 12:41:17 AM »

Looking really good. Expect them to fill a frame a day or more with bees. Keep an eye on them and add another box or replace it with another trap hive when needed.

That's as good a first timer set up as I've seen.

Thanks - nothing to it once I read your tutorial on the subject.

So, since I'm using 8 frame mediums, plan to add a box in around 6-7 days?

I'm thinking that being as late as it is It would probably be best to just add boxes and try to end up with the best single hive that I can instead of going for multiple colonies?  I guess it depends on how fast and how long they come out of there. Hopefully that wall is also chock full of honey for them to rob out and store for winter. 

Anyway, my buddy is glad to see them coming out and not going back in.  They've been invading his pool room ever since it started.
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David LaFerney
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« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2009, 01:13:15 AM »

I just had an idea - I've seen the discussion about different ideas to catch the queen, but how about this:  Have the cone exit into a cage made out of queen excluders?  When the queen absconds if she was detained in such a device, and couldn't go either out or in there might be an oportunity to catch the swarm and the genetics of the feral hive.  In the mean time the workers would still be able to get out to the bait hive.

I just happen to have several wood bound metal excluders that I could try this with. 
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« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2009, 03:40:01 AM »

Not to discourage you, but you will catch a ton of drones in your trap.  You need to have a plan to deal with them.
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David LaFerney
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« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2009, 09:08:59 AM »

Not to discourage you, but you will catch a ton of drones in your trap.  You need to have a plan to deal with them.

That's a good point,but maybe not insurmountable.  I'm thinking of a cage about 3 inches thick with excluders for sides.  how about if the excluders detached pretty easily the drones could be freed every so often?  That would also make it easier to hive the swarm when the time came. 

One of the excluders could be left open until the bulk of the hive was already in the bait hive.  Knowing when that is might be a trick though.  What is a rule of thumb minimum time before the queen decides it's no longer a happenin' place?

It might very well be more trouble than it would be worth - although in this particular case the trapout is right on my way to work.  I was just brainstorming there.  Do you think it would work to catch the queen and absconding swarm?  It seems like the swarm would hang out as long as the queen was detained.
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« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2009, 09:25:21 AM »

Give it a shot,  what do you have to loose.  Just keep a close eye on it and be ready for the unexpected (happens all the time in beekeeping tongue )   Keep us posted with updates and pictures.
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David LaFerney
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« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2009, 05:03:04 PM »

It's been 8 days since I started the trap out, and thought you might like an update on how it's going.




As you can see today there are several (a dozen or more) capped queen cells on the frame of brood that I used to bait the hive - so far so good.  It doesn't look like this is going to be a very big trap out - so far they have only half filled the 8 frame medium hive that I'm using, and they have only built about 1 frame of new comb, but I can still see a slow trickle of bees coming out of the old hive. 

I don't know what would be reasonable to expect as far as how this hive might eventually build up before winter, but I'm pretty happy with how successful the trap out has worked, and the homeowner is happy to see that the bees really are coming out of his wall without a bunch of destruction.  So even if I do end up having to combine this with my other hive I'm glad that I went ahead with it.  So far.

I still haven't taken any real action on building a trap for the absconding swarm, but I figure I have at least this week to do something about it - if I have time.
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asprince
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« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2009, 06:16:19 PM »

Looks good David! I started a trap out today. I plan to start a new topic and post pictures.

Steve
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« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2009, 09:11:09 PM »

Looks like you have it going your way for the time being, just remember that they still have honey stores to rob out so I would not fret too bad about them not having any stores.

If you have two queen excluders make a box out of 1 x 4, 1 x 6 or what ever you have on hand, then put an excluder on each side. Now you have you catch box. Drill a hole in the side of one of the boards for your cone to stick into.

G3
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see my swarms and cut outs at https://www.youtube.com/user/soapy22bullet?feature=mhee

those hot bees will have you steppin and a fetchin like your heads on fire and your @ss is a catchin!!!

Bees will be bees and do as they please!
David LaFerney
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« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2009, 10:16:22 PM »

Looks like you have it going your way for the time being, just remember that they still have honey stores to rob out so I would not fret too bad about them not having any stores.

If you have two queen excluders make a box out of 1 x 4, 1 x 6 or what ever you have on hand, then put an excluder on each side. Now you have you catch box. Drill a hole in the side of one of the boards for your cone to stick into.

G3

I'm thinking of doing something like that, but I would like for the queen to be trapped in a hive box so that I don't take too much risk of losing her if I succeed in catching her to begin with.  How about a shallow box with an excluder on the bottom, and a regular hive box full of frames on top of that, topped off with a screened inner cover so that it could be inspected without turning them loose? 

Your idea would be simpler for sure, but I've never caught or hived a swarm, and I have no idea what the disposition of a caged swarm of absconding bees would be like.  Would they be likely to flee if they could?
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David LaFerney
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« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2009, 10:18:01 PM »

Looks good David! I started a trap out today. I plan to start a new topic and post pictures.

Steve

Please do, I'd like to see how yours goes.
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G3farms
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« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2009, 12:03:22 AM »


I'm thinking of doing something like that, but I would like for the queen to be trapped in a hive box so that I don't take too much risk of losing her if I succeed in catching her to begin with.  How about a shallow box with an excluder on the bottom, and a regular hive box full of frames on top of that, topped off with a screened inner cover so that it could be inspected without turning them loose? 

Your idea would be simpler for sure, but I've never caught or hived a swarm, and I have no idea what the disposition of a caged swarm of absconding bees would be like.  Would they be likely to flee if they could?
[/quote]

not much to catching a swarm, not sure about absconding bees never thought about it like that. As far as fleeing off I don't think they would since the queen would be caught in the excluder.

G3
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see my swarms and cut outs at https://www.youtube.com/user/soapy22bullet?feature=mhee

those hot bees will have you steppin and a fetchin like your heads on fire and your @ss is a catchin!!!

Bees will be bees and do as they please!
David LaFerney
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« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2009, 12:19:37 AM »

not much to catching a swarm, not sure about absconding bees never thought about it like that. As far as fleeing off I don't think they would since the queen would be caught in the excluder.

G3

I'm not thinking that the swarm would desert the queen.  But, I'm just wondering if an absconding queen might act different than one in a regular swarm in that she wants to leave the area to get away from whatever made the old hive uninhabitable (a regular swarm would already be in the neighborhood they want when you find it), and when I try to get her from the trap cage to a hive she might take her crew and leave. If she is already in a hive I wouldn't have to chance it.  If anyone knows that isn't likely to be the case then a simple box with excluders on the sides would sure be a lot easier to build and monitor.
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"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Samuel Clemens

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G3farms
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« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2009, 01:01:51 AM »

I see what you are saying, I don't know how they would be acting, I say like a swarm nice and easy.

Sounds like you got yourself a good project. Keep us informed on how you handle it and the outcome, I for one am curious.

G3
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see my swarms and cut outs at https://www.youtube.com/user/soapy22bullet?feature=mhee

those hot bees will have you steppin and a fetchin like your heads on fire and your @ss is a catchin!!!

Bees will be bees and do as they please!
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« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2009, 03:56:13 PM »

If anyone knows that isn't likely to be the case then a simple box with excluders on the sides would sure be a lot easier to build and monitor.

Speaking strictly from common sense because I certainly don't have any knowledge of beekeeping, I would try the easy way first.  If that doesn't work, then I would try the more difficult way next time.  If you're gonna develop a method by trial and error, it makes the most sense to start with the easy trials......or maybe I'm just lazy.
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« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2009, 04:56:32 PM »

This is just something we were kicking around. If you have any ideas throw them out, we are all ears.

G3
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see my swarms and cut outs at https://www.youtube.com/user/soapy22bullet?feature=mhee

those hot bees will have you steppin and a fetchin like your heads on fire and your @ss is a catchin!!!

Bees will be bees and do as they please!
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« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2009, 06:44:53 PM »

Depending on the size of the queen,  the excluder may not stop her.  Especially since she will not be laying and slimmed down.  Even laying queens can occasionally get thru the excluder and they aren't half as determined as this one will be.

good luck, will be interested in hearing how it goes.  We all know bees are never predictable Undecided
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« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2009, 08:12:18 PM »

This is just something we were kicking around. If you have any ideas throw them out, we are all ears.

No, I'm sorry.  I wasn't trying to imply that I had any better ideas.  All I was saying was that if I had two options that I was kicking around, and one of them was easy to build (the queen excluder cage) and one was more difficult to build (the hive body trap), I would try the easy one first....mostly because I'm lazy.  If the queen flees when you try to transfer from the excluder cage to a hive body, so what?  You were going to lose her anyway if you did nothing, and now you know that the excluder cage doesn't work very well.  So next time you do a trap out, you try the hive body trap and see how that works out.  It also gives you a little extra time to build the hive body trap so you're not under the gun.

Of course, Robo gives a very good reason not to listen to me.  I should put a disclaimer in my signature that anything I post should be taken with a grain of salt because I most likely don't know what I'm talking about.
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« Reply #19 on: July 12, 2009, 09:20:37 PM »

No need to appoligize. huh  I just thought if you had something else in mind throw it out there. I am always open to new or different ideas or thoughts, sometimes it makes the gears turn just a little more. No insult here for sure.

How about a cage with number 8 wire mesh on it then.

Robo is right about the queen slimming down before she swarms, makes it easier on her to fly plus she will have a reason. good call robo.

G3
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see my swarms and cut outs at https://www.youtube.com/user/soapy22bullet?feature=mhee

those hot bees will have you steppin and a fetchin like your heads on fire and your @ss is a catchin!!!

Bees will be bees and do as they please!
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