Need Bees Removed?
International
Beekeeping Forums
September 21, 2014, 08:25:47 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: 24/7 Ventrilo Voice chat -click for instructions and free software here
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar bee removal Login Register Chat  

Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Split Hive Today and need advice please!!  (Read 2259 times)
annette
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 5313


Location: Placerville, California


« on: June 30, 2009, 11:10:28 PM »


Today I split a hive that was making swarm cells on the bottom of the frames throughout the hive.This was a beautiful queen they just made the past few month and I saw her all plump and large just last month.

So I looked all over the hive for her to save her into the nuc, but although I spent over an hour looking at all frames in the hive, I never saw her.  So I just did a split giving the nuc several queen cells, pollen frames and honey.This is a 5 frame medium nuc and I gave the hive 2 supers. 

The hive sits on a bottom board, 2 5 frame supers on top of that, then the inner cover and then the telescoping cover.

I propped the top cover open a bit to help with ventilation, as we are having high 90s, low 100s right now.  But I noticed they are bearding on the outside.

I placed the nuc on top of the parent hive because I really did not know where to place it. Also I thought this would be good for drifting.

So my questions are as follows:

1.   What do you think about placing the nuc on top of the other hive?? See photo
2.   Is there anything more I can do for ventilation for this little nuc?
3.   How will this little nuc keep themselves cool if all the foragers go back to the parent hive??? How will they get water??

I appreciate all the help from all of you.

Logged
David LaFerney
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 924


Location: Cookeville, TN - U.S.A.


WWW
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2009, 11:30:44 PM »

I think you have the happiest looking hives I have ever seen.  They look like smiley faces.  Your grass on the other hand looks totally dead.  Having a drought?

I just wanted to say that even though I know nothing about your problem.  Good luck.
Logged

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Samuel Clemens

Putting the "ape" in apiary since 2009.
JP
The Swarm King
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 11676


Location: Metairie, Louisiana

I like doing cut-outs, but I love catching swarms!


WWW
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2009, 12:01:52 AM »

I'd find another spot for the nuc and would fill it up with bees and feed and seal it, but give them ventilation. You could even move them inside for a day or two. They will have queen rearing on their mind.

I'm concerned you didn't find the queen and you have swarm cells, they could still swarm out on you. Be ready.

I would go back and try to find the queen. There are a few other things you could do, even make up another nuc, if you find that queen.


...JP
Logged

"Good friends are as sweet as honey" Winne the Pooh

My pictures can be viewed at http://picasaweb.google.com/pyxicephalus
and
http://picasaweb.google.com/112138792165178452970

My Youtube videos can be viewed here: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=JPthebeeman&aq=f

My website JPthebeeman.com http://www.jpthebeeman.com/jpthebeeman/
Robo
Technical
Administrator
Galactic Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 6405


Location: Scenic Catskill Mountains - NY

Beekeep On!


WWW
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2009, 08:21:40 AM »


1.   What do you think about placing the nuc on top of the other hive??

It is best to place the nuc in the location you plan for the hive to ultimately end up.   Now you will have to move it again and loose some of the population that will return to the old location and most likely merge with the hive they are on top of currently.   Placing it on top will not deter bees from returning to their known entrance on the big hive and reducing the nuc population.
Quote
2.   Is there anything more I can do for ventilation for this little nuc?
You could remove the entrance reducer if you think ventilation is still an issue. Usually nucs don't have as big an issue becuase the population is lower.
Quote
3.   How will this little nuc keep themselves cool if all the foragers go back to the parent hive??? How will they get water??
If your worried about water,  you can pour some into the comb or give them a boardman feeder with water.


Since you didn't find the queen,  could it be that they swarmed already?   Did you see any eggs?  Or could they bee just low supersedure cells.   If the top and middle of the frames where full, and the queen was laying on the bottom portions of the frames,  they would make supersedure cells from the youngest brood which in this case would be on the bottom portion of the frames.
Logged

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison


JP
The Swarm King
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 11676


Location: Metairie, Louisiana

I like doing cut-outs, but I love catching swarms!


WWW
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2009, 10:05:05 AM »

Annette, I've been wondering if not supersedure as well. If you look thorougly again and do not come across her, they just might be superseding, another reason not to split this hive.

That would actually be a really good outcome compaired to having to deal with a swarmy hive.

Best of luck.


...JP
Logged

"Good friends are as sweet as honey" Winne the Pooh

My pictures can be viewed at http://picasaweb.google.com/pyxicephalus
and
http://picasaweb.google.com/112138792165178452970

My Youtube videos can be viewed here: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=JPthebeeman&aq=f

My website JPthebeeman.com http://www.jpthebeeman.com/jpthebeeman/
annette
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 5313


Location: Placerville, California


« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2009, 12:18:20 PM »

OK I placed them on top of the parent hive because I do not want to have 5 hives and I didn't want to deal with feeding another hive. That is why I thought if I placed them on top they would be orientated there.  See I planned on recombining them in a few weeks time and I thought they should be in the same spot. I gave this nuc 2 full frames of honey so I would not have to feed them.

 Do you all still feel the same way now that I plan on recombining them soon??

The hive does not look like it swarmed yet, good population. Also all the queen cells were on the bottoms of the frames in all the supers. But you know I am having a strange feeling about this hive also.  I don't believe they were strong enough at any given time to even think about swarming out.  Perhaps it is a supercedure after all. 

Would it be ok to leave them as it is and recombine the hives in a couple of weeks??


Robo

So you think I need to give them water after all?? I don't own a boardman feeder, so I better get something quickly.

Also I did not find any eggs only some larva here and there, but mostly emerging type brood.  No new brood. Sounds sort of swarmy right??

JP
You said to give them more ventilation, but how??? I already have the top propped open. If I do remove the bottom entrance reducer, won't they get robbed out with those 2 honey frames in there???

Thanks for all the help, Sorry for asking more questions, but I have to get this straight in my head.

Annette

Logged
JP
The Swarm King
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 11676


Location: Metairie, Louisiana

I like doing cut-outs, but I love catching swarms!


WWW
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2009, 04:48:37 PM »

Annette, I was referring to the nuc you set up. I would seal them if I were trying to get them to raise queens, ventilate them by making screened vent holes, because its so hot out and bring them inside for a few days, but if you move them a few miles away you don't have to seal them.


...JP
Logged

"Good friends are as sweet as honey" Winne the Pooh

My pictures can be viewed at http://picasaweb.google.com/pyxicephalus
and
http://picasaweb.google.com/112138792165178452970

My Youtube videos can be viewed here: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=JPthebeeman&aq=f

My website JPthebeeman.com http://www.jpthebeeman.com/jpthebeeman/
annette
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 5313


Location: Placerville, California


« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2009, 05:44:02 PM »

JP

I went up to watch them this afternoon and no more bearding.  There were foragers flying in and out a little which made me feel better that they could get some water if they need it.

I opened up the entrance reducer also which should provide even more ventilation.

JP they have capped over queen cells which should open up any day.  I really think they are ok now with the ventilation. 

Perhaps they were all outside yesterday because I had just split them and they were investigating the new surroundings, in any case, they are not bearding anymore. 

I really do not have anyplace to bring them into so I need to keep them outside.  If this setup  doesn't work out, I can just place them into a regular medium super

Thanks for the help
Annette



Logged
JP
The Swarm King
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 11676


Location: Metairie, Louisiana

I like doing cut-outs, but I love catching swarms!


WWW
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2009, 08:21:50 PM »

Best of luck and do let us know what happens when you have it all figured out.


...JP
Logged

"Good friends are as sweet as honey" Winne the Pooh

My pictures can be viewed at http://picasaweb.google.com/pyxicephalus
and
http://picasaweb.google.com/112138792165178452970

My Youtube videos can be viewed here: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=JPthebeeman&aq=f

My website JPthebeeman.com http://www.jpthebeeman.com/jpthebeeman/
annette
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 5313


Location: Placerville, California


« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2009, 10:47:18 PM »

I think you have the happiest looking hives I have ever seen.  They look like smiley faces.  Your grass on the other hand looks totally dead.  Having a drought?

I just wanted to say that even though I know nothing about your problem.  Good luck.

David we have a natural drought here in Northern California. No rain usually from about April/May to about November. Everything drys up and turns brown out here.  That is why such a high fire danger out here.

Yes now I see the smiley faces and they will never look the same to me again.

Take care
Annette
Logged
annette
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 5313


Location: Placerville, California


« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2009, 10:48:00 PM »

Best of luck and do let us know what happens when you have it all figured out.


...JP

I am going to do something different tomorrow, will post here when it is done.

Annette
Logged
JP
The Swarm King
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 11676


Location: Metairie, Louisiana

I like doing cut-outs, but I love catching swarms!


WWW
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2009, 10:53:12 PM »

ooh, you're keeping us in suspense, I like a good mystery!


...JP
Logged

"Good friends are as sweet as honey" Winne the Pooh

My pictures can be viewed at http://picasaweb.google.com/pyxicephalus
and
http://picasaweb.google.com/112138792165178452970

My Youtube videos can be viewed here: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=JPthebeeman&aq=f

My website JPthebeeman.com http://www.jpthebeeman.com/jpthebeeman/
annette
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 5313


Location: Placerville, California


« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2009, 11:11:24 PM »

ooh, you're keeping us in suspense, I like a good mystery!


...JP

No JP I am ashamed to admit I messed up with the little nuc being on top of that hive.  Tonight when I went up to visit them about 6:00PM there was a frenzy of bees going into the little nuc hive.  It was being robbed out by the parent hive it was sitting on top of. I had to close them up, remove the top telescoping cover so they could get ventilation from up on top (the inner cover on top was screened in). and then things started to quiet down a bit. (I also sprayed some water into the top screened in area from a spray bottle to cool them off)

So tomorrow morning I will remove the nuc from on top and place it somewhere else.  I will probably just transfer the hive into a regular medium super because I have a SBB for that. I will keep the hive pretty closed up at the entrance except for room for about 1 bee to leave and enter.

My confidence is sort of low right now because of this.  Sometimes I think I am the worst beekeeper and probably am in over my head.

Tomorrow will be better.

Annette
Logged
JP
The Swarm King
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 11676


Location: Metairie, Louisiana

I like doing cut-outs, but I love catching swarms!


WWW
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2009, 11:18:00 PM »

Annette, hold your head up high! Hey, you're learning if you're doing and that's always a wonderful thing.

And don't be so hard on yourself, you are doing fine. Remember we all have losses, live and learn, all we can do really. Really though, I'm glad you're on this site and you ARE a fine beekeeper, seriously.

Now turn that frown upside down! cheesy
...JP
Logged

"Good friends are as sweet as honey" Winne the Pooh

My pictures can be viewed at http://picasaweb.google.com/pyxicephalus
and
http://picasaweb.google.com/112138792165178452970

My Youtube videos can be viewed here: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=JPthebeeman&aq=f

My website JPthebeeman.com http://www.jpthebeeman.com/jpthebeeman/
annette
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 5313


Location: Placerville, California


« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2009, 11:19:10 PM »

 Kiss Kiss Kiss grin
Logged
gwalker314
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 70


Location: Mc Calla, Alabama


« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2009, 01:26:56 AM »

Hello Annette,

Sorry to hear about the robbing of the nuc. I saw you were concerned about ventilation. Maybe you have seen the all season inner cover on Honey Run Apairies website. I made a couple of these from the plans off the website and they seem to work very good. Its basically an inner cover with screened vent holes. lets some of the heat out and keeps robber bees and bugs from getting in. It was pretty easy to make and I'm no woodworker. I hope all goes well with your bees.

http://www.honeyrunapiaries.com/plans/all_season_inner.pdf

GW
Logged
annette
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 5313


Location: Placerville, California


« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2009, 01:13:50 PM »

Yeah GW,

I have these covers on all of my 4 other hives.( See photos above) They are the greatest ventilating covers ever, but the nuc is a 5 frame and I don't believe they make that cover for nuc's.  Perhaps I will look into this just to have an extra cover around whenever I have to do a split.

Meanwhile here is the update to this  post

I had to move the nuc away from the parent hive because it was getting robbed out.  I moved the little nuc about 20 feet away into a very shaded spot so it would not get the strong sun on it.  I kept the entrance closed up except for the width of 1 bee and opened up the telescoping cover quite a bit for ventilation.  The inner cover has a screen on it, so no worries there for robbing.

So the moral of the story is:

Perhaps not a good idea to set the nuc on top of the other hives.

Annette

Logged
sc-bee
Super Bee
*****
Online Online

Posts: 1962


Location: Edgefield, SC


« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2009, 11:19:32 PM »

Swarm or supercedure?

I keep thinking of what was in another post.
-- are all cells of the same age
-- how many cells
-- is the brood area being backfilled or are cells being cleaned and polished

You should be approaching day 3 since split--- check parent colony for eggs. You were wondering about the queen?

Sorry to hear about robbing problems. Hold you head high GAL Kiss! The bees are teaching us all Wink.
Logged

John 3:16
annette
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 5313


Location: Placerville, California


« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2009, 12:31:06 AM »

OH thank you for the encouraging post sc-bee

No they were not backfilling the brood nest.

There were around 10 queen cells all on the bottom of the frames.

Boy I don't know anything about this polishing of the cells. What is that about??

The queen cells looked almost all the same size.

I will check on the hives later on.  I am not worried right now as both hives have the means to make a queen.

What do you think?

Annette
Logged
Joelel
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 578


Location: Dallas,Texas


« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2009, 01:13:43 AM »


Today I split a hive that was making swarm cells on the bottom of the frames throughout the hive.This was a beautiful queen they just made the past few month and I saw her all plump and large just last month.

So I looked all over the hive for her to save her into the nuc, but although I spent over an hour looking at all frames in the hive, I never saw her.  So I just did a split giving the nuc several queen cells, pollen frames and honey.This is a 5 frame medium nuc and I gave the hive 2 supers. 

The hive sits on a bottom board, 2 5 frame supers on top of that, then the inner cover and then the telescoping cover.

I propped the top cover open a bit to help with ventilation, as we are having high 90s, low 100s right now.  But I noticed they are bearding on the outside.

I placed the nuc on top of the parent hive because I really did not know where to place it. Also I thought this would be good for drifting.

So my questions are as follows:

1.   What do you think about placing the nuc on top of the other hive?? See photo
2.   Is there anything more I can do for ventilation for this little nuc?
3.   How will this little nuc keep themselves cool if all the foragers go back to the parent hive??? How will they get water??

I appreciate all the help from all of you.




How to Split a Hive

Method 1: This is the method to use if you are able to buy a queen or capped queen cell from another beekeeper, or have already raised a queen or a capped queen cell yourself.

Note: Make sure that both halves of the split have eggs and young larva. This way no matter what happens to the old or new queen, both your old and your new hives will be able to raise a new queen.

1. Inspect your beehives. Chose the strongest one for splitting. Make sure it has at least 9 or 10 frames covered with bees and brood. It also needs some honey, pollen, a good laying queen with at least 2 frames of eggs and open brood. If you have kept good records you should be able to easily know which hives are strong.

 
2. Place a nuc box with 4 empty frames of good comb or wax foundation next to the hive to be split. If you do not have a nuc box you can use a standard 10-frame box with base, lid, and 10 empty frames of comb or foundation.

 
 
 
3. Open the hive to be split. Carefully inspect each frame, making sure you do not take the queen when you shift frames to the new hive. If you see the queen, it is a good idea to put her and the frame she is on out of the way (in an empty nuc box) until you have transferred the frames to the new nuc, or hive box. You want to take 1 frame of honey and pollen, 2 frames of capped brood and 1 frame of eggs and open brood.

Step 1. Put the honey and pollen frame along one side of the nuc.
Step 2. Next to it put 1 frame of capped brood.
Step 3. Put in the frame of open brood
Step 4. Add the 2nd frame of capped brood.
Step 5. Put the lid on the nuc box.
4. If you removed the frame with the queen on it, you can put her back into the old hive now. Push all 6 of the full frames into the middle of the hive. Put the 4 empty frames on the outside. Put the lid on.

5. Slide the hive along the hive stand until there is room for the nuc to sit in its place.

6. Slide the nuc into the space left by the original hive. This is so that many field bees will go into the nuc or new hive, instead of all of the field bees going back to the old hive.

7. It is a good idea to add more bees to the nuc or split because many of the bees may return to the old hive. You can do this by shaking, or brushing the bees from one or two frames into the nuc before closing it.

8. Leave the nuc without a queen for 24 hours.

9. Introduce a caged queen, or insert capped queen cell.

http://www.schoolnet.net.sb/courses/beekeeping1.0/how_to_split_a_hive.html

Feed them sugar water for about two weeks. Put a feeder in front about 50 ft. away.
Logged

Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation
Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Beemaster's Beekeeping Ring
Previous | Home | Join | Random | Next
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.371 seconds with 21 queries.

Google visited last this page September 18, 2014, 01:30:07 AM
anything