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Author Topic: young lady finds a way to kill SHB's  (Read 8268 times)
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« on: June 25, 2009, 04:31:47 PM »

smart young lady, poor news caster then saying in the honey bee world it's the drone that takes care of the babies  huh tongue  watch the video...

http://www.myfoxal.com/dpp/features/whats_right/20090623_bee_student
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« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2009, 09:55:21 PM »

I would like to know how she did it ,Im having a big problem with SHB right now.
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« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2009, 02:17:23 AM »

I would like to know how she did it ,Im having a big problem with SHB right now.

She did it my increasing the amount of Hydrogen Peroxide, a natural occurring ingredient in honey, within the hive.  Who'd have thunk it?
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« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2009, 07:21:14 AM »

Did she mix Hydrogen Peroxide with honey for the beetles to eat?Did she spray the comb ? Is it bad for the bees ? Do you make it to where only the beetles can get to it ? It would be nice if you could just spray everything with it.
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« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2009, 07:54:45 AM »

Did she mix Hydrogen Peroxide with honey for the beetles to eat?Did she spray the comb ? Is it bad for the bees ? Do you make it to where only the beetles can get to it ? It would be nice if you could just spray everything with it.

 well that hasn't come out yet but she is being question by bee lab people I would bet, as soon as the how and technique come out it should be posted.
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« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2009, 12:45:21 PM »

Very, VERY interesting.... I know that peroxide is good for a multitude of things. I use it to sterilize vegetables by soaking them in water in the sink, with about 1/2 cup peroxide added. Lettuce lasts SO much longer when cleansed this way. It crisps up and doesn't get that awful slime - it lasts several times longer when rinsed with peroxide-water and shaken out then refrigerated.

Tidbit about Hydrogen Peroxide, H2O2: It is not 'toxic'. It is actually a volatile liquid. It has an extra oxygen molecule that wants to break off and attach to a carbon molecule. Just like Ozone, which is O3 -- they are both used as a antimicrobials. When that extra oxygen molecule breaks away and attaches to a carbon molecule on a germ, it makes the single-celled organism (germ) rupture. One byproduct of this interaction is CO2 gas (carbon dioxide), which is why peroxide bubbles when it is working.

It's great stuff!

(edit for minor corrections)
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« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2009, 01:15:23 PM »

I had never heard of washing vegetables with peroxide, very interesting.
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« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2009, 02:47:08 PM »

I keep it in a spray-bottle on my kitchen sink.

Try pouring it on shower-caulking mold or in between tiles on moldy grout, and watch it foam!!
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« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2009, 02:57:15 PM »

I have always poured peroxide over our toothbrushes every so often but it neveroccured to me to use it for anything else. Thanks.
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« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2009, 03:43:08 PM »

this is very interesting, and can not wait to here how she did this.

Good post about the veggies also, had never heard of it either.

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« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2009, 04:35:51 AM »

Can't get link to work???
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« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2009, 09:31:19 AM »

the video and link are dead now, I even did a search on the site and couldn't find it, nothing but Micheal Jackson now. I will look some more.
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« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2009, 04:08:16 PM »

You know, I got to wondering.... if her method is THAT good... wouldn't the larger companies try to shut her up and shut the idea down??? That seriously crossed my mind. She figured out something really good, it made the news, the info got out (or parts of it), then a big company pays her for the 'idea' telling her they will fully research it, and to keep it under wraps....

.....do you see where I'm going with this?
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« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2009, 04:10:52 PM »

My thoughts exactly when the link was dead Wink
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« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2009, 04:17:41 PM »

Hydrogen Peroxide is dirt cheap. Imagine what it would do to big business!!! Lips Sealed
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« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2009, 05:43:49 PM »

Im going to mix so hp and honey,then put mesh over the top and put it in a hive..
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« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2009, 06:42:00 PM »

Im going to mix so hp and honey,then put mesh over the top and put it in a hive..
I will be VERY interested to hear what happens!!! Do keep us posted!! grin
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« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2009, 09:02:48 AM »

Now that we know that the link is dead I imagine that there are a lot out here that would like to know what this is about.

Will someone please describe what was outlined in the link

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« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2009, 09:31:48 AM »

the video was about a young girl in high school did a study in her back yard, honey has natural Hydrogen Peroxide in it, some how she increased the level of Hydrogen Peroxide in the honey and when SHB's eat it they die. this was some kind of a national science contest and she won.
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« Reply #19 on: July 06, 2009, 06:36:14 PM »

I am wondering if she just added it to some sugar water for them to feed on.

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« Reply #20 on: July 06, 2009, 07:13:48 PM »

I don't think she specified HOW she used the peroxide........ Here's what I remember:

Summary -- High School student wins blue ribbon at science fair, for discovering a way to eliminate Small Hive Beetle: She keeps several hives, the first of which she lost to SHB. Using this as a science opportunity, she conducted lab tests on numerous honey samples. She discovered that Hydrogen Peroxide, naturally occurring in Honey, was elevated when ever the bees were under duress or stress. She then used hydrogen peroxide - in an unspecified way - to eliminate SHB herself.

THAT is the mystery. Perhaps bigger companies don't want us knowing, eh??
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« Reply #21 on: July 06, 2009, 11:09:15 PM »

It might have been pulled so that she can get some kind of patents on any equipment she designed. I still bet it is something very simple.

My bet is she feed it to them or had somekind of board they had to go across and it rubbed on them.

G3
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« Reply #22 on: July 07, 2009, 11:53:04 AM »

Aren't SHB drawn to pollen? I know little about them, being a new beek, I have no firsthand knowledge... yet. You can believe I'm all ears, though.
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« Reply #23 on: July 07, 2009, 12:55:31 PM »

Aren't SHB drawn to pollen? I know little about them, being a new beek, I have no firsthand knowledge... yet. You can believe I'm all ears, though.

Yes, they are drawn to pollen.   If you have honey supers that are clean of honey but there is some pollen here and there, they will lay in the pollen.

I have also heard that using pollen patties can attract them quit well although I have not used pollen patties so I don't have 1st hand knowledge.
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« Reply #24 on: July 07, 2009, 02:52:20 PM »

If it worked that well and I would guess she used a very simple application method either her or unknown others might possibly be "spinning" setting up test verification trials and trying to figuring a way to capitalize on the discovery;.
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« Reply #25 on: July 07, 2009, 04:18:18 PM »

maybe she made hydrogenpatties grin

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« Reply #26 on: July 07, 2009, 08:36:00 PM »

maybe she made hydrogenpatties grin
MMMMMMM HYDROGEN PATTIES.......... /Homer drool

Actually, that was my first thought regarding baiting SHB in that way. I'll bet it would work. Even outside the hive, if it draws new adults, it would significantly reduce the SHB egg-laying in the hives.
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« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2009, 08:29:55 PM »

 I emailed the TV station twice last week inquiring about it.  No responce.
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« Reply #28 on: July 11, 2009, 09:19:49 PM »

I'll bet that if SHB eats pollen laced with H2O2, their tummies asplode from bubbles.

Too bad I don't have any beetles to practice on.........  Undecided
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« Reply #29 on: July 11, 2009, 09:23:19 PM »

I'll bet that if SHB eats pollen laced with H2O2, their tummies asplode from bubbles.

Too bad I don't have any beetles to practice on.........  Undecided

 dont worry, they are coming, they in texas pretty good from what I hear.
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« Reply #30 on: July 29, 2009, 10:46:51 AM »

Someone in Ala, met the young lady. She was at a bee meeting in Ala. She was surprised her experiment had drawn so much attention.

Based on her comments, her experiment dealt with how there was elevated levels of hydrogen peroxide in honey when the bees were stressed by shb. I don't think any experiments were done using hydrogen peroxide to rid a hive of shb.

She has agreed to have someone post her experiment on the net.

(All this info is based on a post in another forum  evil, Don't shoot me moderator(s) grin. I'm not going to post the link I will let you look for yourself if you care too Lips Sealed)
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« Reply #31 on: July 29, 2009, 12:37:50 PM »

So... the news clip about her science project was misleading?? Why on earth did they pull it? We have nothing to go on....

I'd love to see more!
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« Reply #32 on: July 29, 2009, 10:49:52 PM »

Here is the verbiage:

>Hello all,
Well I was at my local bee association meeting and Lydia McCormick was there. She is the young lady that won 1st place in the science contest about hydrogen peroxide & SHB.
I talked with her a few minutes about the project. Basically her research found that hives that had a large SHB population resulted in higer hydrogen peroxide levels in the honey. I believe she did add a bit of peroxide to the test comb and it killed the beetles present. Her project was not about a way to eliminate the SHB but to identify there was a problem with the hive due to stressed bees producing more hydrogen peroxide which is already present in the honey. She was surprised to hear that her project was a topic of discussion. She is going to email me the report and gave me permission to post it for all who are intrested to read. She also said she is going to do more research on this issue. Its a start and I am glad to see some young people working on possible solutions.
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« Reply #33 on: July 30, 2009, 12:34:09 AM »

I found the press release: http://ftp://ftp.alsde.edu/documents/55/NewsReleases2009/5-19-09Science_Fair.pdf

The significant quote from that is: "The Effect of Honey Hydrogen Peroxide Concentration on Small Hive Beetle (Aethina tumida) Survival"
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« Reply #34 on: August 06, 2009, 08:05:21 PM »

Lydia McCormick just sent me an abstract of her research for posting here.

Abstract:
Honeybees are the planet’s number one pollinator and, therefore, essential for our agricultural economy because plants depend on them for reproduction. Unfortunately, many health disorders can plague and devastate bee colonies. In the past five years, the small hive beetle (SHB) (Aethina tumida) has become a widespread problem, particularly in the Southeast. In Alabama, this menacing insect is now one of the most common invaders of bee colonies. While beekeepers have used a variety of non-toxic traps or chemical treatments to control SHB, it is also likely that honeybees have natural stress defenses. One possible chemical defense is hydrogen peroxide, produced by glucose oxidase, an enzyme secreted by bees into their honey. Previous observations (“The Effect of Honeybee Pathogens on H202 Content and Glucose Oxidase Activity in Honey”. Science Fair 2008) revealed that honey hydrogen peroxide concentrations were highest in beehives that had small hive beetle (SHB).

      The hypothesis that higher hydrogen peroxide concentrations in honey may decrease SHB survival was tested. Groups of 3-5 SHB were incubated at room temperature in containers with cut comb, pollen, and experimental honey for up to 3 months. Nine different experimental H202 concentrations (ranging from 0 mg/ ml to 6000mg/ ml) were added to two different types of honey, natural (raw) versus store-bought. Furthermore, two specific controls were included: 1) a positive control in which the honey was heated to denature protein (enzymes) prior to adding 1600 mg/ ml H202, and 2) a negative control in which honey was pre-incubated with excess catalase to remove native H2O2. Results showed decreased SHB survival after 14 days at concentrations above 1600 mg/ ml H202. By 22-28 days, reduced survival was apparent at 400-800 mg/ ml. At 98 days, all groups showed beetle death, with concentrations above 100 mg/ ml being severely affected. Furthermore, qualitatively, at the lowest concentrations (between 0mg/ ml and 100 mg/ml) beetles showed the most feeding activity as evidenced by feces and chewed combs bits. There was no difference in survival regarding the two honey types. In conclusion, these results suggest that honey H202 may be a natural long-term defense against SHB.

 Lydia McCormick - Jefferson County International Bacc.

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« Reply #35 on: January 24, 2010, 12:42:14 AM »

Has anyone experimented with this technique, yet?  I'd like some info on this, as I intend to do some experiments this spring with this.

-mt

Lydia McCormick just sent me an abstract of her research for posting here.

Abstract:
Honeybees are the planet’s number one pollinator and, therefore, essential for our agricultural economy because plants depend on them for reproduction. Unfortunately, many health disorders can plague and devastate bee colonies. In the past five years, the small hive beetle (SHB) (Aethina tumida) has become a widespread problem, particularly in the Southeast. In Alabama, this menacing insect is now one of the most common invaders of bee colonies. While beekeepers have used a variety of non-toxic traps or chemical treatments to control SHB, it is also likely that honeybees have natural stress defenses. One possible chemical defense is hydrogen peroxide, produced by glucose oxidase, an enzyme secreted by bees into their honey. Previous observations (“The Effect of Honeybee Pathogens on H202 Content and Glucose Oxidase Activity in Honey”. Science Fair 2008) revealed that honey hydrogen peroxide concentrations were highest in beehives that had small hive beetle (SHB).

      The hypothesis that higher hydrogen peroxide concentrations in honey may decrease SHB survival was tested. Groups of 3-5 SHB were incubated at room temperature in containers with cut comb, pollen, and experimental honey for up to 3 months. Nine different experimental H202 concentrations (ranging from 0 mg/ ml to 6000mg/ ml) were added to two different types of honey, natural (raw) versus store-bought. Furthermore, two specific controls were included: 1) a positive control in which the honey was heated to denature protein (enzymes) prior to adding 1600 mg/ ml H202, and 2) a negative control in which honey was pre-incubated with excess catalase to remove native H2O2. Results showed decreased SHB survival after 14 days at concentrations above 1600 mg/ ml H202. By 22-28 days, reduced survival was apparent at 400-800 mg/ ml. At 98 days, all groups showed beetle death, with concentrations above 100 mg/ ml being severely affected. Furthermore, qualitatively, at the lowest concentrations (between 0mg/ ml and 100 mg/ml) beetles showed the most feeding activity as evidenced by feces and chewed combs bits. There was no difference in survival regarding the two honey types. In conclusion, these results suggest that honey H202 may be a natural long-term defense against SHB.

 Lydia McCormick - Jefferson County International Bacc.


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« Reply #36 on: January 24, 2010, 08:08:56 AM »

Has anyone tried just spraying some hive beetles with HP? Would this hurt the bees? the honey?
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« Reply #37 on: January 24, 2010, 09:00:26 AM »

I found the press release: http://ftp://ftp.alsde.edu/documents/55/NewsReleases2009/5-19-09Science_Fair.pdf

The significant quote from that is: "The Effect of Honey Hydrogen Peroxide Concentration on Small Hive Beetle (Aethina tumida) Survival"


  This link do not work  for me.


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« Reply #38 on: January 24, 2010, 10:32:35 AM »

The link was dead but using the info I came across another forum that someone posted that she mixed the 3% peroxide with honey to feed the bees and kill the SHB. I do not know if this is first hand facts or speculation. Now I am not able to find the article again. Is there anyone on other forum's that can search this and keep the information going ?
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« Reply #39 on: January 25, 2010, 03:13:35 AM »

Now we just need to know whether it is toxic to the bee and at what level.  If it is non toxic to bees at lethal levels to the shb you can treat without hurting bees.  If toxic to bees then a device has to be made to only allow shb access to the irresistible poisoned bait.
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« Reply #40 on: January 25, 2010, 03:25:21 AM »

That's my plan, use a slimline CD case with honey and HP.  The problem will be the measuring metric. I don't expect SHB to die in the case, but later out of the case.  So the trick will be measuring effectiveness.

On top of that, trial and error on honey/HP ratios.

Now we just need to know whether it is toxic to the bee and at what level.  If it is non toxic to bees at lethal levels to the shb you can treat without hurting bees.  If toxic to bees then a device has to be made to only allow shb access to the irresistible poisoned bait.
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« Reply #41 on: January 26, 2010, 12:08:02 AM »

You might want to try mixing Oxyclean (sodium percarbonate) with dry pollen and placing it in a container which the SHBs can get into but the bees can't.  Sodium percarbonate generates hydrogen peroxide on contact with water suggesting that once the SHBs ingest it with pollen they should receive a healthy dose directly to their gut.

SH
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« Reply #42 on: January 26, 2010, 06:45:15 PM »

what about mixing the hp and honey solution in an aj beetle eater.beetles can get in there and bees can't.is it the honey that draws them to it?if so this would work.   thanks bill
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« Reply #43 on: January 26, 2010, 08:44:06 PM »

No one in here has reported on the stability of H2O2....


It is not a stable chemical. It wants to turn to water and 02. If you expose it to light, the light (even in your bathroom over the sink) has enough energy to cause the oxygen to break off and bond with another broken molecule. That is why it is in solid brown containers and not see-through. It also says do not shake, for the same reason.

Most likely, long term would consist of you having to add H202 every week. Why? If you read the study, H202 in lower levels acts like crack to a junkie with the beetles.

You might want to try mixing Oxyclean (sodium percarbonate) with dry pollen and placing it in a container which the SHBs can get into but the bees can't.  Sodium percarbonate generates hydrogen peroxide on contact with water suggesting that once the SHBs ingest it with pollen they should receive a healthy dose directly to their gut.

SH


That is a very good idea, with a few exceptions. First off, it will injure you and do the same to you if you get it on you and you sweat or inhale the dust.


I would recommend reading the MSDS on it: http://www.sciencelab.com/xMSDS-Sodium_percarbonate-9927598
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slaphead
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« Reply #44 on: January 27, 2010, 09:12:41 PM »

You are right that it should be used with care.  That said Sodium Percarbonate has been widely used for many years by both professional and amateur brewers as a "no rinse required" cleaning and sanitizing agent (trade names "One Step" and Easy Clean" I believe).  I'd recommend using gloves to weigh it out and washing away any spills with water.  Simple solutions of sodium percarbonate in water lose all potency within a few days so it may not work if you spiked honey or syrup with it.  If the powder stays dry it retains its potency, that's why I suggest mixing it with dry pollen or pollen substitute.  To sanitize glassware percarbonate is used at the rate of 1 level tablespoon per gallon of water.  With a freshly prepared solution 2 minutes of contact time kills all contaminating microorganisms.  I suspect you'd need something like 1 Tablespoon per cup of dry pollen / substitute to have a rapid impact on SHBs.  The ultimate breakdown products of percarbonate are Sodium carbonate and water (latter after the peroxide has broken down).  These are inert and non-toxic to humans.  Basically you'd need to provide a bait station the SHBs can get into but the bees can't, and bait it with percarbonate plus dry pollen / pollen substitute.  I suspect some of the SHB traps currently on the market could be used for this purpose.

Well that's my 2 cents worth.  We don't have SHB here yet so I'm unable to test this hypothesis.  If someone out there does try it out please let the rest of us know if it works  Smiley

SH
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sarafina
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« Reply #45 on: February 09, 2010, 01:20:26 PM »

You are right that it should be used with care.  That said Sodium Percarbonate has been widely used for many years by both professional and amateur brewers as a "no rinse required" cleaning and sanitizing agent (trade names "One Step" and Easy Clean" I believe).  I'd recommend using gloves to weigh it out and washing away any spills with water.  Simple solutions of sodium percarbonate in water lose all potency within a few days so it may not work if you spiked honey or syrup with it.  If the powder stays dry it retains its potency, that's why I suggest mixing it with dry pollen or pollen substitute.  To sanitize glassware percarbonate is used at the rate of 1 level tablespoon per gallon of water.  With a freshly prepared solution 2 minutes of contact time kills all contaminating microorganisms.  I suspect you'd need something like 1 Tablespoon per cup of dry pollen / substitute to have a rapid impact on SHBs.  The ultimate breakdown products of percarbonate are Sodium carbonate and water (latter after the peroxide has broken down).  These are inert and non-toxic to humans.  Basically you'd need to provide a bait station the SHBs can get into but the bees can't, and bait it with percarbonate plus dry pollen / pollen substitute.  I suspect some of the SHB traps currently on the market could be used for this purpose.

Well that's my 2 cents worth.  We don't have SHB here yet so I'm unable to test this hypothesis.  If someone out there does try it out please let the rest of us know if it works  Smiley

SH

That's interesting - I didn't know One Step was the same chemical in Oxyclean!  I started brewing my own mead last year with my honey and was using One Step for sanitizing my carboys but switched to the liquid Star San because it was cheaper.  I bought some generic OxyClean at the dollar store to soak leftover wine bottles in to removes the labels, which works great btw.  I'm going to check the label on the generic I bought for $1 and if it is the sodium percarbonate, someone is making a killing re-packaging it as One Step!  And I can always use my cheap stuff in a pinch.

As for SHB - I have the nasty buggers and may start thinking of a way to set a trap for them that the bees can't get to.  I use SBB with oil trays and it keeps them at bay, at least.  I have too many trees for full sun but they are in the sunniest part of the yard I have.
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« Reply #46 on: March 26, 2010, 08:56:24 AM »

Just built a couple of screened BBs that have a metal tray for oil to tray and kill SHBs.  I also am trying DE in CDs.  Just became a distributor for Perma-Guard who mines and sells probably the best DE anywhere.  So I may put DE in one instead of oil and try a mixture of HB and H Pollen pattie in the other.  Can't hurt.  The bees can't get to it.
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« Reply #47 on: April 09, 2010, 11:16:35 PM »

Just built a couple of screened BBs that have a metal tray for oil to tray and kill SHBs.  I also am trying DE in CDs.  Just became a distributor for Perma-Guard who mines and sells probably the best DE anywhere.  So I may put DE in one instead of oil and try a mixture of HB and H Pollen pattie in the other.  Can't hurt.  The bees can't get to it.
How's that working out for you?
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« Reply #48 on: April 11, 2010, 12:34:27 AM »

WOW Very interesting stream of events,hope the trend never gets broken would really luv to hear the tested results of using H2O2 or sodium percarbonate.....Has anyone recorded success as yet or at a level which requires assistance to make further tests??
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