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Author Topic: Nurse bees in queen cage?  (Read 3127 times)
Hethen57
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« on: June 25, 2009, 02:46:12 PM »

Do you always remove the bees in the queen shipping cage before introducing the queen?  I just received my 2 queens and they each have about 5 bees in with them.  I will be installing them into queenless nucs.
-Mike
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-Mike
kathyp
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« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2009, 03:47:13 PM »

just put it in.  make sure that if you are not going to release her, you have changed the cork to marshmallows so that they can chew her out.  place the queen so that the bees in the hive have access to the screened side of the cage.  close it up and forget about them for a few days  smiley

there is another way that some do if a hive has been queenless.  they just release the queen into the hive right away.  it often works, but i see no harm in giving them a few days to decide that they like her.  all you have lost is some laying time.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Hethen57
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« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2009, 04:28:19 PM »

I've requeened with no attendants, both direct release and indirect (candy) and had good luck so far.  With these ones, I made the nucs last night and will put the cages in for a couple of days, then remove any queen cells and uncork the candy side on Sunday.  I just didn't know how those attendants would affect queen intro.  I have read various ways of getting them out of the cage (so some must advocate removing them), but it seems like the bees should get used to the attendants just like the queen.  On the otherhand, maybe you want the bees feeding her throught the screen and not to have the shippping attendants caring for her.
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-Mike
Hethen57
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« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2009, 05:00:27 PM »

In doing some research, it sounds like you can introduce them with or without attendants, but the chance of success is better if you remove the attendants first.  I guess I will remove them, but I don't like losing any of my bees....
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-Mike
Hethen57
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« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2009, 12:35:57 AM »

Well..I removed the attendants in the bathroom, so they wouldn't fly away..the queen was the only one who escaped and wanted to fly.  I pretty much released everybody into a jar, and then took the queen out, marked her, and put her back in the cage..minus the attendants.  To give the attendants a chance at survival, I sprayed them with syrup and released them onto the top of the frames.  They were met with initial scrutiny from the guards, but upon receiving a few sniffs they appeared to pass and slipped down into the frames.
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-Mike
Michael Bush
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« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2009, 05:26:42 PM »

>Do you always remove the bees in the queen shipping cage before introducing the queen?

Unless you have some reason to expect a problem I wouldn't bother.  If you're introducing a queen to a hot hive or one that you suspect may not accept her (for instance a Russian queen etc.) then I'd stack the deck and use a push in cage.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfaqs.htm#requeening
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesdoolittle.htm#CHAPTER16
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfaqs.htm#pushincage
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesdoolittle.htm#ValuableQueen
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesqueenrearingsimplified.htm#pushincage
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesbetterqueens.htm#The%20Push-in-the-Comb%20Cage
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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
TwT
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« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2009, 10:30:51 PM »

I always leave the attendants in also, I have never taken the out. if anyone has the info and reason on why the attendants should be remove could you post it, I would like to see the study and reasoning why they would introduce better without attendants.
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kathyp
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« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2009, 10:46:43 PM »

never took them out.  that sounds like work to me  smiley
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Hethen57
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« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2009, 02:00:50 AM »

The book I have (The Beekeeper's Handbook) says you have a better chance of success if you do it and a couple of queen breeder websites say you should, but don't have to.  The reasoning is that the bees will get more aggressive with the introduction of 5 intruder bees and a queen..trying to kill them...and might kill the queen.  Made sense to me so I did it and it worked fine.  With the price of queens, if they recommend doing it...I figured I'd do it and it wasn't that big of a deal...and it actually gave me an opportunity to mark the queens.
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-Mike
TwT
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« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2009, 02:14:12 AM »

The book I have (The Beekeeper's Handbook) says you have a better chance of success if you do it and a couple of queen breeder websites say you should, but don't have to.  The reasoning is that the bees will get more aggressive with the introduction of 5 intruder bees and a queen..trying to kill them...and might kill the queen.  Made sense to me so I did it and it worked fine.  With the price of queens, if they recommend doing it...I figured I'd do it and it wasn't that big of a deal...and it actually gave me an opportunity to mark the queens.

I could understand their point if the queen and attendants was getting release as soon as you installed the cage in the hive, but after a couple days I dont see it, because if that was really true with them staying aggressive towards the attendants for more than a day a news paper combine would never work, I have seen after a few hours bee's feeding the attendants through the cage.
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Never be afraid to try something new.
Amateurs built the ark,
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kathyp
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« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2009, 10:21:52 AM »

i agree with TwT.  i have  never been in such a rush to release a queen that it would make any difference.  besides, when you are doing all that manipulation of the queen and attendants, you are risking losing her, damaging her, etc. 

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Hethen57
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« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2009, 01:20:10 PM »

I asked the question, so I really appreciate your responses.  It's good to know that you can do it either way, but it gave me an opportunity to do my first queen marking and the whole process went really well.  After marking my two new queens, I had enough confidence to go out to my other hives this weekend and mark two of my other un-marked queens.  So, once again, thanks for the input.
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-Mike
Michael Bush
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« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2009, 01:37:35 PM »

I have heard a study quoted that was done on acceptance related to releasing the attendants, so I'm sure there is such a study and I'm sure in any iffy situation, it would be worth doing, but in a typical situation I've never seen a difference.
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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
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