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Author Topic: Apartment Removal - 3 Stories up!  (Read 4389 times)
SystemShark
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« on: June 25, 2009, 09:24:13 AM »

I finally got my first hive removal call so I am happy to get the experience.

I opened the cavity to see how deep back they went and started cutting the comb out. I couldn't find ANY brood and it was crazy honey packed... from reading some other threads I'm thinking that it might be queenless.. In which case I am in trouble because I don't have a queen to put in there.

I couldn't scoop / sweep out the majority of the bees because they were so far back but I did end up getting all the comb and I put the pieces in a hive. My frames are plastic foundation so I really couldn't secure them nicely but I set them up as even as I could with a frame of brood from one of my hives at home.

My hope is that the bees in the cavity decide to move up into the hive I set on top of the roof.

Maybe I can speed ship a queen in or get it from someone local. I'll check on them today. Any tips or ideas for me?

http://picasaweb.google.com/dapawlowski/ApartmentHiveRemoval
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iddee
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« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2009, 09:35:33 AM »

>>>>Any tips or ideas for me?<<<<

Yes, three.

1.. Pick an easier one next time.

2.. Go at it from the inside.

3.. Get wood frames.

 shocked     cheesy      evil     rolleyes

Leave the area open and check back in a day or two. Hopefully, they will be in the box or clustered around the queen. More likely, tho, they will abscond. A bee vac would be nice if they are clustered.

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SystemShark
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« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2009, 12:25:14 PM »

well the frames are wood, but its that plastic/wax foundation sheet in there... I guess I could just take it out then have a blank wooden frame - maybe I'll do that.

I just got back from checking on them and there is allot of activity going in and out of the hive I set on the roof...however the bees are linking together in preparation for new comb I guess.

If there is no queen, will they just abscond? If i get another queen will they go to her?
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G3farms
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« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2009, 05:39:15 PM »

Am I understanding you right, the comb you cut out, you put it in a frame that has plastic foundation in it?? huh

if that is the case, then yes you only need empty frames, place the comb into the frame and use rubber bands to hold it in. Try to keep the comb right side up when you put it in the frame. You did not find any brood at all, not even any eggs? how about queen cells? Make sure they don't have a queen and if not you can give them some eggs or purchase a queen.

Need just a little more info.

Good luck with them and let us know, thanks for the pics. That was a tough cut out and a bee vac would have surely helped.

G3
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see my swarms and cut outs at https://www.youtube.com/user/soapy22bullet?feature=mhee

those hot bees will have you steppin and a fetchin like your heads on fire and your @ss is a catchin!!!

Bees will be bees and do as they please!
SystemShark
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« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2009, 05:49:05 PM »

Am I understanding you right, the comb you cut out, you put it in a frame that has plastic foundation in it?? huh

if that is the case, then yes you only need empty frames, place the comb into the frame and use rubber bands to hold it in. Try to keep the comb right side up when you put it in the frame. You did not find any brood at all, not even any eggs? how about queen cells? Make sure they don't have a queen and if not you can give them some eggs or purchase a queen.

Need just a little more info.

Good luck with them and let us know, thanks for the pics. That was a tough cut out and a bee vac would have surely helped.

G3

For the frames.. I have wooden frames with a plastic sheet of waxed foundation in each. I took out 5 frames to make room for the comb I was cutting out of their hive. I held the comb up inbetween frames (with the plastic/wax foundation) as best as I could.. no rubber bands.

I'm fairly certain they are queenless.. no larva, no queen cells...some empty cells and some with honey (allot of honey).

I was thinking today that if I can collect the bees somehow in the hive...even if there is no queen.. then I might be able to add them to a swarm that I got a month ago. I know the swarm has a queen cause I saw her =)

Would the bees ..1 from a swarm and 1 from an established (wild hive in an apartment building with no queen) get along?
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kathyp
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« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2009, 05:56:33 PM »

you can do a newspaper combine.

when you do your next cutout, remove the foundation and take empty frames.  place rubber band on frame end beforehand.  that way you can cut the comb out, place it in the frame, and slide the bands over it to hold it.  i think you'll find this works well.  the bees will remove the bands later, or you can, or leave them. 

you picked a tough one for the first!  grin 

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
mgmoore7
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« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2009, 08:05:01 AM »

I would suggest that before you do the next cutout, do a bunch of reading on this site so you know what you are getting into and what to take with you and have an idea of what to be prepared for.

 
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Keith13
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« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2009, 03:52:51 PM »

Am I understanding you right, the comb you cut out, you put it in a frame that has plastic foundation in it?? huh

if that is the case, then yes you only need empty frames, place the comb into the frame and use rubber bands to hold it in. Try to keep the comb right side up when you put it in the frame. You did not find any brood at all, not even any eggs? how about queen cells? Make sure they don't have a queen and if not you can give them some eggs or purchase a queen.

Need just a little more info.

Good luck with them and let us know, thanks for the pics. That was a tough cut out and a bee vac would have surely helped.

G3

For the frames.. I have wooden frames with a plastic sheet of waxed foundation in each. I took out 5 frames to make room for the comb I was cutting out of their hive. I held the comb up inbetween frames (with the plastic/wax foundation) as best as I could.. no rubber bands.

I'm fairly certain they are queenless.. no larva, no queen cells...some empty cells and some with honey (allot of honey).

I was thinking today that if I can collect the bees somehow in the hive...even if there is no queen.. then I might be able to add them to a swarm that I got a month ago. I know the swarm has a queen cause I saw her =)

Would the bees ..1 from a swarm and 1 from an established (wild hive in an apartment building with no queen) get along?

I am still not sure how you put the comb you cut out into the frames. Did you totally remove the foundation and then fit the combs into the frames? If you did how are you holding the comb into the frames with out it falling out?

Keith
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SystemShark
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« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2009, 03:59:45 PM »

Gravity/pressure I guess. I'm sure its the the right way to do it but I don't know if the bees care or not.

I dunno how else to explain it... The comb pieces I cut out are "sandwiched" in between two frames with plastic/wax foundation.

So I took out 5 frames and where those frames would normally be are just open spaces in which I put the comb pieces. They are just held in there balancing between the two frames, one on either side.
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kathyp
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« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2009, 04:47:53 PM »

oh hey, doing these things is a learning process every time.  just when you think you have a good handle on it, you find yourself face down in an attic hive.   evil  evaluate what worked and what didn't.  do learn as much as you can from the mistakes and advice of others. 

my top 3 questions before i start

1. do i have the skill to do this one. (sometimes i get that wrong)
2. do i want to do this one?  (sometimes i get that wrong)
3.  is my "stuff" together.  the stuff is pretty important, because if you answer yes to 1 & 2, but fail on 3, it all falls apart.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
G3farms
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« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2009, 08:23:48 PM »

OK, lets get things started off right.
1. First of all you need some frames WITHOUT any foundation in it, just a plain ol' empty frame. Take the foundation out of some of yours, and leave some.
2. Take the comb that you cut out of the hive and cut it to fit inside of the frame, be sure to keep the comb turned the right way, same way it was oriented when you cut it out. The comb may not be long way to fit in the frame and you will end up cutting small chuncks to get it in place, don't worry about it the bees will fix it up.
3. Take several rubber bands and place them around the frame to hold the comb in place, these can be top to bottom or long ways, it will only take a few.
4. Place the brood in the center or a least together in the hive body and the frames of foundation on either side of them.
5. Not sure of you area what is blooming but you might want to consider feeding them some sugar water.

Hope this helps you out. With the comb just standing inbetween the frames the bees will build some wild comb and bracing, this will not let you pull the individual frames for inspection. At least you are not afraid to ask for help and that is a good quality.

G3
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see my swarms and cut outs at https://www.youtube.com/user/soapy22bullet?feature=mhee

those hot bees will have you steppin and a fetchin like your heads on fire and your @ss is a catchin!!!

Bees will be bees and do as they please!
Brian D. Bray
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« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2009, 11:59:39 PM »

To elaborate, when doing a cut out for any hive that has been there over 12 months take 2 boxes and enough empty frames to fill each box.  Some feral hives have huge brood chambers that are bigger than what can fit in 2 10 frame boxes.  discard the drone comb, it will speed up the process.
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Life is a school.  What have you learned?   Brian      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!
SystemShark
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« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2009, 10:06:24 AM »

crazy learning experience this one... i guess it didn't have to be as complicated and tough as I made it. Should have planned better.

The bees just robbed all the honey from the box/hive I put all the comb in from last week and moved back into the wall.

So yesterday I took the box down and I ended up making a psudo beevac out of a 2.5 hp shop vac. I took the old filter out and put wire mesh around the inside working parts. Then cut a hole about 3 inch's square in the container that came with it..covered that with mesh and the suction seemed to be cut down quite a bit.

I just kept them in the vac until I got home (20~ mins away) and then sprayed them with some sugar/honey/water mixture to try and calm them down a bit, through the mesh. After I put a queen excluder wrapped in 1 layer of newspaper on top of a recent swarm capture. Dumped the bees in with a frame of brood and 5 empty frames..I left 4 frames of empty space because I didn't know how many bees I actually got and I wanted them to have some room to move around.

This morning I went to check on them and brought the 4 frames with me to add and the majority of them had left.. (I left the top open a crack) absconded probably. Its a shame but they were queenless and I didn't have another queen to try and work them that way. I have to finish getting the rest of the bees out of the wall today/tomorrow so maybe I'll have better luck. I'm thinking of trying to give them some honey and closing the top completely. I probably should have done that when I put them in there but they were flying like crazy after I dumped them in so I was hoping they'd want a place to stay and go in there.
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mgmoore7
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« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2009, 12:59:03 PM »

Honestly, this is sad.  Step back, slow down and learn and try again.
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kathyp
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« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2009, 01:11:27 PM »

i lost my very first cutout also.  i am sure that it was my lack of experience in management, combined with being eager and doing it to early in the year.

learn from this and continue reading up on those done by the experienced.   we have an entire section dedicated to equipment, technique, and questions.  we are fortunate to have cutout masters here, who post their work for our benefit.

better luck next time!
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
SystemShark
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« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2009, 02:22:00 PM »

Do you think if I kept the top closed after I put them in that would have been better?

I'm set to go back Thursday to try and get the rest of them.
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kathyp
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« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2009, 03:36:51 PM »

no queen?  you'd be better combining them.  you could give them eggs if there are enough bees and let them raise a queen.  in my area, i'd add them to other hives.  if they are leaving the box that's probably where they have gone anyway.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
SystemShark
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« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2009, 12:49:22 PM »

oh that would be amazing. I havn't checked the other hives but if they left the empty box I hope they just went to another hive rather than just leaving to the abyss and death. I hope thats what happened.

I felt like crap all yesterday because of moores comment =(
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wildbeekeeper
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« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2009, 04:32:43 PM »

moores comment wasnt meant to hurt but probably help more that anything..... there are alot of knowledgable people on here and someone here can help you or someone maybe even very near to where you live who can help you.....we all want to try and do things ourselves, but sometimes we jump too soon and end up with more work than needed.   ask lots of questions and read a lot more and then ask more questions.  When I first wanted to do cut outs i read a whole lot and my first ended up ok, but i still learned alot afterwards and even yet today......good luck!!
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G3farms
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« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2009, 05:41:28 PM »

Everything is a learning experience and sometimes the curve is steep and sometimes it is flat. We all learn from our mistakes it is called experience. Even if you did loose this hive of bees it not that big of a deal, learn from it and move on to the next one, the only thing you lost was some of your time, but you gained heaps of knowledge.

I learned to do my first cut outs o 15 box hives I bought. Box hives were the forerunners of top bar hives, no frames and everything was stuck solid with propolis. I learned my lesson good on doing an inspection on a hive before you buy it. These were some fairly aggressive bees and I learned to work fast and smoothly, also learned how to drum bees (back before a bee vac).

Do some more reading, ask plenty of questions, and find someone in your area to beek with.

hang tough, your next one will be better.

G3
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see my swarms and cut outs at https://www.youtube.com/user/soapy22bullet?feature=mhee

those hot bees will have you steppin and a fetchin like your heads on fire and your @ss is a catchin!!!

Bees will be bees and do as they please!
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