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Author Topic: Cutout Frames - Question for JP and others too  (Read 2952 times)
mgmoore7
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« on: June 19, 2009, 10:04:06 AM »

I was going to just ask JP but thought I would ask the rest too.

I saw in some of JPs pictures that he uses rubber bands.  This has been difficult for me when working by myself. 

I have been making frames by putting 3 small nails on each side of the frame and wrap wire across and fasten it on one side.  This gives 3 pieces of wire going across the frame. On the other, side, I put the nails on as well but don't nail them all the way down and cut a piece of wire to string across after the comb is in.  This has worked well for me in the past and is similar to the split frames in concept that some use.

What I was finding though was how long making these takes.  I think it took me almost 30min to do 5 frames last night.  I quit and put rubber bands on the other 5 frames. 

I thought the wire would be better when working by myself since I can just lay the comb in and fasten the 2nd side with the wire and I think it does but I am reconsidering if it is worth it just because the prep time is so much.

What are your thoughts?
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JP
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« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2009, 10:10:43 AM »

Matt, I use rubber bands because its quicker for me to do so. Perhaps in the off season you can make up some removable catch frames or the ones you're making now.


...JP
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G3farms
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« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2009, 10:44:57 AM »

I use the rubber bands, and put 3 or 4 on each end of the frame and a couple in the middle before I start a cut out. This saves me time and the hassle of sticky fingers trying to grab the little rubber bands.

I saw some where that somebody had put the wires on one side of the frame like you were doing and thenn used rubber bands to hold the other side in. The wire just helped hold the comb more steady while you worked a t getting the rubber bands pulled over the comb.

I usually just hold the frame between my knees and work the comb and rubber bands into place, where is that extra set of hands when you need them.

Those hinged cut out frames looked to work good but time consuming to make and remove.

G3
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« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2009, 11:20:03 AM »

i do as G3 does.  they are banded before i start.  the one big advantage to the RBs is that they are easy to remove.....although i have some still stuck on frames from almost 3 years ago  smiley  the bees still drag bits out from time to time.

i really do like the hinged frames.  wonder how they work over the long term?  has anyone used them?  you wouldn't leave them in the hives....?
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« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2009, 11:35:13 AM »

I use rubber bands as well.  I have only done a couple of cutouts and in both cases I filled 10 frames full of brood comb.  The comb that went into the frames were mostly single large pieces that filled the frame which I think made it easier to work with than a number of smaller pieces in a frame.  I lay the comb down on a metal queen excluder (placed on top of a brood box), size the comb against the frame, cut the comb to fit, then, with rubber bands in place at the far edges of the frame lay the frame over the comb, then slide the RBs toward the middle by lifting the edge of the comb.  Seems to work well and go quickly so far.  I only use a couple of RBs per frame unless I have multiple pieces of comb, then I need more RBs.

John
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« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2009, 11:38:52 AM »

rubber bands here also, I put 2 bands on each end of the frames before I start, cut the comb to fit and holding comb in the center of the frame with one hand and sliding the rubber bands down the frame with the other hand, works fine for me.
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iddee
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« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2009, 02:38:55 PM »

I use the hinged frames. Best thing I have found.

Your way sounds like a great way to do it, and at 6 minutes per frame prep time, I don't understand your complaint. I would think about using rubber bands from nailhead to nailhead on the second side during the removal. It would be easier than the wire when your hands are full of honey.
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mgmoore7
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« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2009, 02:54:53 PM »

I use the hinged frames. Best thing I have found.

Your way sounds like a great way to do it, and at 6 minutes per frame prep time, I don't understand your complaint. I would think about using rubber bands from nailhead to nailhead on the second side during the removal. It would be easier than the wire when your hands are full of honey.

I just don't have 6 minutes per frame.  I have a full time + job, 5 kids, exersize, study, building bunk beds...........  So an hour to make just 10 frames when I only get an hour or two in the evenings to do some of this seems like a long time. 

Your idea on the rubber bands on the other side, sounds good.
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Rebel Rose Apiary
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« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2009, 03:05:21 PM »

I use those 'newspaper' type of rubber bands...they are natural colored rubber, wider than most rubber bands and strong enough to hold the comb in place on these rough Illinois roads!

Brenda
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« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2009, 06:59:48 PM »

I use the hinged frames. Best thing I have found.

Question, how and when do you remove these hinged frames if they are using them? I know using the rubber band method the comb stays in the hive for year's until I change it out.
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iddee
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« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2009, 07:12:28 PM »

Two ways...

1..Once she is laying on other frames, move the hinged ones to the outside.

2..When the second box is added, put her in it over an excluder. 25 days later they can be removed.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2009, 09:03:35 PM »

If you cut a one by to 3/8" (so you get a 3/8" by 3/4" piece) and cut those to make a bunch of frames and hinge those with a piece of plastic from a pop bottle stapled onto the frame and drill holes in the end bars and run five wires for a deep and three for a medium you can use this as a "swarm ketching frame"
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mgmoore7
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« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2009, 09:23:06 AM »

After doing the cutout on Saturday using both frames with wires as I described earlier and frames with just rubber bands, I think the rubber bands is the way to go.

Here are the reasons.
1.  The wire is slippery when using gloves covered in honey.
2.  The wire frames take too long to make for me.
3.  I did not find that the wire frames held the comb any better than rubber bands since the comb is thinner than the frames anyway.  Maybe this is not the case with the swarm catch frames since they have about an 1/8 of an inch removed from being split.
4. If you have a table or piece of cardboard to work on, laying the frame and comb on the table an sliding the rubberbands under and over the comb/frame was actually faster than my style of frames with wire. 
5. Frames with no foundation is much easier on to just have laying around than keeping a set of wired frames.  For my small operation, having 10 to 20 frames just laying around that can't be used for anything else without undoing the work already done, is not really a wise use of my resources.

The day after doing the cutout, I had to go back to the hive and drill holes through the frames and put long finish nails through the holes and into the comb since some of it (mostly the comb that I did not cut to size just right) was sagging or would likely create messed up comb later. 

Putting holes in the frames and using nails to hold it in the center worked fairly well.  This might be a good solution in some cases to hold the comb straight in the frame without much prep work involved. 

Here is a link to the cutout pictures and video
http://blog.moorehoneybees.com/
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« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2009, 12:39:28 PM »

MG, thanks for the pics and video.  Per the other thread, I thought the cluster looked like a swarm when I first saw it, then I remembered it was a cutout.  Also, thanks for the comments on wired frames vs rubber bands on the holding cut brood comb.  I went with the rubber bands for the simplicity and time expediency, but I was wondering about wired frames and if they worked better.  You answered my question.  Good luck with the new hive - hope they produce lots of honey for you!

John

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Jahjude
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« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2010, 09:55:58 PM »

 shocked I know this is an old post but for a while i've been reading thru various post-right now i was just wondering; Has anyone ever tried using fishing line to tie cut-out combs into frames???
I think i would like to try this alternative whenevr i go to remove a wild colony
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« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2010, 10:02:12 PM »

you might find it a bit hard to handle when your hands are gooey with honey and stuff.  the combs need to be tied in so that they don't move around and remain straight otherwise the bees will make a mess of it as they reattach it to the frames.

i prefer the fat rubber bands because they can be put on the frames before you start and moved to hold the comb as you go.  they are also easy for either the bees or me to remove.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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