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Author Topic: Frame Question  (Read 1502 times)

Offline Pond Creek Farm

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Frame Question
« on: June 16, 2009, 09:21:48 PM »
Our Nucs are just not building very fast.  I put the second deep on with deep frames and turned the wedge down as a starter strip.  The bees do not seem to be working these frames at all.  There are a few in there with large cell foundation that I sawed down and stapled in as starter strips.  The bees are starting to work these.  I also have some mostly drawn PF-100 plastic that I took off a dead out.  It has some SHB larvae damage and some (not a lot) green mold on the wax.  I wonder if I should freeze this and put it on the nucs for them to clean up or whether I should pull the wedge frames and put in some wax starter strips.  The bees seem to be content not to draw the upper deep and I would like to encourage them however I can.
Brian

Offline TwT

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Re: Frame Question
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2009, 09:25:40 PM »
on the frames you turn the wedge down on wouldn't you need to wax these somehow, you know melt some wax and drizzle it down the wedge to help them work it, I don't do foundation less frames but some wax might help.
THAT's ME TO THE LEFT JUST 5 YEARS FROM NOW!!!!!!!!

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Offline Pond Creek Farm

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Re: Frame Question
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2009, 09:36:34 PM »
Perhaps.  I know they draw the wax starter strips, so maybe a coating of wax would help. 
Brian

Offline David LaFerney

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Re: Frame Question
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2009, 10:56:14 PM »
Perhaps.  I know they draw the wax starter strips, so maybe a coating of wax would help. 

Maybe it would, and I have only my first hive, but I used plain strips of wood and they haven't seemed to have any problem building off of it.  I have been feeding though.  I had a bit of a problem at first with crooked comb (my fault) but once that got straightened out they've been building perfect straight comb at the rate of about 2 medium frames every 3 days.  So far.
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Offline jdpro5010

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Re: Frame Question
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2009, 05:35:35 PM »
I would not put wax on myself.  The comb they make doesn't seem to attach as well.  If you give them a ladder (I.E. drawn frame) in the upper box it will help.  It almost sound like there is not much of a flow going on though and they just don't feel they need the space.

Offline Ross

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Re: Frame Question
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2009, 01:04:37 PM »
No, you don't need to wax your frames to get them to draw.  They draw comb all the time in nature and nobody waxes the spot.  It's simple, they draw what they need.  You have to make them need it.  You do that by providing a flow, either natural or by feeding.  You also have to have sufficient bees, so it make take a few rounds of brood rearing to reach that critical density.  Feeding will help that as well.  Having a drawn comb in the upper box to act as a ladder will also help, preferably one that they have already worked on rather than a deadout comb.
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Offline TwT

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Re: Frame Question
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2009, 07:47:11 PM »
I ask a older beekeeper the other day about bee's drawing wax on a solid wood frame, he said they will draw it out but why on earth would someone go foundation less in a lang hive? I said its a new fad people are doing now and why I dont know, he said they should be using a top bar hive for that, a lang hive was the new model to make beekeeping easier for the beekeeper extracting honey and all.

well thats what he said and I still will not do it myself, I tried starter strips a few years back and comb wanted to break during inspection, after 2 full years half of those was not attached at the bottom and some side's wasn't either, I only use starter strips when I want comb honey, other than that it's all foundation for me.
THAT's ME TO THE LEFT JUST 5 YEARS FROM NOW!!!!!!!!

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Amateurs built the ark,
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Offline sc-bee

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Re: Frame Question
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2009, 08:52:57 AM »
I also tried it without success. But may have been my patience :shock:!
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Offline Ross

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Re: Frame Question
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2009, 09:06:17 AM »
I extract foundationless frames every year without problems.  I know for sure the wax doesn't have unnecessary chemicals in it; most foundation does because most foundation wax is from commercial operations.  My bees are healthier since I quit foundation over 7 years ago.  My bees draw empty frames about twice as fast as wax foundation, and they take several seasons to draw plastic.  We have short flows.  The original Langs didn't have foundation; foundation is the new fad, supposedly to save time.  It takes longer to wire up frames and longer to draw; where is the time saving?  Michael Bush got me started and most folks consider him a successful and knowledgeable beekeeper.  I've grown from 3 hives to over 50 without foundation and without buying bees.  I call that success too.
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Offline sc-bee

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Re: Frame Question
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2009, 09:24:57 AM »
You still taper your frames on a table saw ross?
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Offline Ross

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Re: Frame Question
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2009, 11:02:49 AM »
I do, because I have a saw setup and it's quick and easy for me.  There are a number of ways to achieve the same thing.
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Offline TwT

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Re: Frame Question
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2009, 11:14:33 AM »
guest in away i do like you, i don't wire frames either, i get the wire reinforced foundation  :-D , wonder if they sale lang frames not made for foundation, this brings me a question, when did foundation get started? bet MB got the answer to that. i guest the time saving is I can extract all frames the same year because they are attached all the way around, not like the starter strips I tried. Its best for beekeepers to try it for themselves, I didn't like it but Ross does so its best if you want to try foundation less to try it and see if its what you want to do, you can't go by what others say, its best to try it for yourself and see what you think... good luck!!!
« Last Edit: June 19, 2009, 12:33:47 PM by TwT »
THAT's ME TO THE LEFT JUST 5 YEARS FROM NOW!!!!!!!!

Never be afraid to try something new.
Amateurs built the ark,
Professionals built the Titanic