guest in away i do like you, i don't wire frames either, i get the wire reinforced foundation :-D , wonder if they sale lang frames not made for foundation, this brings me a question, when did foundation get started? bet MB got the answer to that. i guest the time saving is I can extract all frames the same year because they are attached all the way around, not like the starter strips I tried. Its best for beekeepers to try it for themselves, I didn't like it but Ross does so its best if you want to try foundation less to try it and see if its what you want to do, you can't go by what others say, its best to try it for yourself and see what you think... good luck!!!