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Author Topic: one hive or two??  (Read 5158 times)

Offline harvey

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one hive or two??
« on: June 17, 2009, 07:21:16 PM »
Good evening Folks

Was just wondering all yalls opinion.  I have just started into beekeeping.  The bee's came to me so I gave them a home.  I have no desire to sell honey just get enough for me and my relatives?  Also help polinate my orchard.  I have 30 dwarf fruit trees.   I think this first hive is going to make it!

Question is :  Is one hive enough or should I maybe go to two?   Would it be to late in the year to consider ordering bee's and starting up another hive?   The one I have now was a swarm that landed in my orchard and then I picked up a couple brood boxes and supers from Dadent.  Whatsya think?

Offline doak

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Re: one hive or two??
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2009, 08:22:20 PM »
You should have at least two. Forbid something happens in the one you will have some route to go to.
As in loosing the queen, you could give it a frame of eggs/brood and they could rear another queen.
Also have two so you can have someway to know how they are doing. Comparison.
You would unlikely have the same problem with two colonies at the same time unless it was some drastic occasion. My 2 cents. :)doak

Offline John Schwartz

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Re: one hive or two??
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2009, 08:24:40 PM »
My thots...

1) 2 hives might be a good idea as it gives you more options for combining a weak hive, etc
2) 1 hive is plenty to pollinate a small orchard of that size
3) Guessing, considering your climate/location, that it may be a bit too late. However, I'd find a beek (on this board or elsewhere) or bee supply shop locally and get a solid opinion.
--John Schwartz :)

Offline Tucker1

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Re: one hive or two??
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2009, 08:40:23 PM »
Having two hives gives you a comparison, which is very helpful.  As already mentioned, it also provides you several options in cases of problems, that you just don't have with a single hive.

Good luck with your bee keeping.

Regards,
Tucker
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Offline iddee

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Re: one hive or two??
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2009, 09:00:20 PM »
I agree with the two, but I think you should just keep the one for this year and try to increase to two or more in the spring. Getting one through a Michigan winter will be an accomplishment for a new beek. Getting one this late and it surviving the winter would be a miracle.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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Offline harvey

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Re: one hive or two??
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2009, 10:23:51 PM »
OK well I don't want to waist miracles on a second hive this year!  I will do what I can to help this one along and through the Michigan winter,   Yes we do get deep snow in our area and a lot of sub zero temps.  If need be maybe I could put black tar paper around the sides or on the top in the winter to get a little heat from the sun?
   If next year I want to start another hive, I will probably not be so lucky to find a swarm so package bees,  are they going to be different or more difficult?   


Offline John Schwartz

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Re: one hive or two??
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2009, 10:28:06 PM »
OK well I don't want to waist miracles on a second hive this year!  I will do what I can to help this one along and through the Michigan winter,   Yes we do get deep snow in our area and a lot of sub zero temps.  If need be maybe I could put black tar paper around the sides or on the top in the winter to get a little heat from the sun?

There's differing opinion on that. I'd find someone local with 5+ years exp. keeping bees alive and learn from 'em. :)

Quote
   If next year I want to start another hive, I will probably not be so lucky to find a swarm so package bees,  are they going to be different or more difficult?   

My pref these days are Nucleus hives ("Nucs") which can get you jump-started quicker as opposed to package bees. Nucs are mini-hives and composed of 4-5 frames of bees and brood along with a queen whereas package bees are just bees and have the work of comb-building in front of them after you hive them. There is one caveat some say with Nucs -- you have to be careful of disease that might be coming along for the ride in old frames/comb. I think if you check around and find reputable supply and check things out well during install, you're likely ok.
--John Schwartz :)

Offline Pond Creek Farm

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Re: one hive or two??
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2009, 12:21:36 AM »
One is not enough, nor will two be enough.  I have found that I need 4-6 hives to really get a good comparison.  I have also found that I like having more hives than fewer hives.  I have like packages and nucs. I even bought a whole hive last year.  (I somehow managed to kill it).  This is a great learning experience, but I really wish I had a mentor.  This forum is my only source of information, and while great, I would llike to have someone look at these hives with me as I open them.
Brian

Offline annette

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Re: one hive or two??
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2009, 12:35:09 AM »
I started with one hive and was very successful with them. They overwintered really great and ended up too strong and swarmed on me the second year. Then I had 2 hives for 2 more years.

I now have 4 hives and I feel more comfortable having 4 because there are so many things that can go wrong, and at least there are the resources available to help each hive to thrive. There is always something happening with one hive or the other, so I feel better now that at least I am not going to lose my one and only hive.

Offline troutstalker2

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Re: one hive or two??
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2009, 09:29:34 AM »

 
 More than one is the way to go, but when you two you will wonder about three, and four......

David

Offline mgmoore7

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Re: one hive or two??
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2009, 11:04:11 AM »
Go for 2.

I started with two and now have 17.  I am in my 2nd year.

Offline harvey

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Re: one hive or two??
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2009, 12:50:44 PM »
seventeen!  that is crazy!  You must want or are trying a business,  I just want to be able to pass honey around to my family members and know that my trees are being polinated good.  As it is mid june I think I will try and get this hive through the winter and then pick another up in the spring.  To bad I couldn't just split the hive I have into to full brood boxex and then put an empty brood box on top of each of them.  or can I?   What would I do for a queen in the second hive?

Offline John Schwartz

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Re: one hive or two??
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2009, 12:55:45 PM »
seventeen!  that is crazy!  You must want or are trying a business,  I just want to be able to pass honey around to my family members and know that my trees are being polinated good.  As it is mid june I think I will try and get this hive through the winter and then pick another up in the spring.  To bad I couldn't just split the hive I have into to full brood boxex and then put an empty brood box on top of each of them.  or can I?   What would I do for a queen in the second hive?

The key for hive growth/multiplication is understanding the growth pattern and seasons... a hive needs enough "momentum" (good food stores, good number of healthy bees, healthy queen, etc) going into fall to make it through the winter. To split a fairly new hive right now would be taking a gamble, but possible. IF you knew a local beek that would be willing to give you some extra frames of brood and you found a good queen asap, you fed them a bunch, etc etc, you MIGHT be able to gat a hive rollin nicely.
--John Schwartz :)

Offline NasalSponge

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Re: one hive or two??
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2009, 02:22:53 PM »
Again that far north I would wait to do a split until spring. I started with two at the beginning of May, I am now up to 5. I also prefer nucs, do a search on here for packages and do some reading....in theory they work like a swarm but with the potential for many more issues.

Offline vermmy35

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Re: one hive or two??
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2009, 02:45:15 PM »
Harvey I started with one hive this year and now that I am having a blast with it I wished it would have been two.  Next year I plan on adding another hive maybe even two depending on what the Chicago city ordinance says; I definitely have my neighbors full support and they keep asking me if I have any honey yet.  So good luck with what ever you decide. Norm
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Offline Scadsobees

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Re: one hive or two??
« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2009, 03:02:52 PM »
Hmm...well, being a participant in the Arctic north, I'll chime in... ;)

You can start a hive and get it through if you start now.  You can even split a hive and make it through.  But splits get a bit trickier, especially considering that you are starting from a reletively new swarm.

You are better off sitting back and enjoying them this year. There is a slim chance of getting honey.  You can do a split next spring and end up with 2 hives and still get honey next year.  If you have the extra money, a new hive can be built up enough by the end of the year.

The trouble is, though, that I can tell you've got the bug more than a little bit.  It is going to eat at you if you don't get two hives this year.  In two years you are going to have at least 10 hives.  :-D

Rick
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Offline mgmoore7

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Re: one hive or two??
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2009, 04:35:38 PM »
seventeen!  that is crazy!  You must want or are trying a business,  I just want to be able to pass honey around to my family members and know that my trees are being polinated good.  As it is mid june I think I will try and get this hive through the winter and then pick another up in the spring.  To bad I couldn't just split the hive I have into to full brood boxex and then put an empty brood box on top of each of them.  or can I?   What would I do for a queen in the second hive?

The key for hive growth/multiplication is understanding the growth pattern and seasons... a hive needs enough "momentum" (good food stores, good number of healthy bees, healthy queen, etc) going into fall to make it through the winter. To split a fairly new hive right now would be taking a gamble, but possible. IF you knew a local beek that would be willing to give you some extra frames of brood and you found a good queen asap, you fed them a bunch, etc etc, you MIGHT be able to gat a hive rollin nicely.

lotsobees is right.  For me, in FL, we can do splits probably all the way into Sept/Oct and overwinter into Nucs.  There is no winter here there is no broodless time so there is little danger of them dying due to cold.  The biggest issue we have right now is keeping them strong enough to deal with the SHB.

Offline The Beekeeper

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Re: one hive or two??
« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2009, 06:48:40 PM »
I personally started with two hives, which I think is good when starting out because different hives behave and produce honey in different ways.

So when you have 2 hives you are able to compare your production.

All the best!

Offline jojoroxx

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Re: one hive or two??
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2009, 12:24:35 AM »
I had two last year. Both failed come spring (with abundant stores.) So I installed THREE packages on the drawn foundation and honey stores; one hive swarmed, so now I have FOUR! .... And I am already visualizing the bench for the next 8!!! ...I am thinking a bakers dozen, about 13 hives, would be about right. (a girl can dream!! :-D) That way, I figure I'd have plenty of hives to absorb the losses, draw comparisons to, and draw brood or bees from. Losing a hive would also become less of a big deal.  More is better right? ....something about can't be too thin, too rich or have too many bee hives!! 8-)

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: one hive or two??
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2009, 10:16:03 PM »
Two for all the reasons given.  The biggest issue is that the standard insurance/cure for a possibly queenless hive is a frame of open brood and eggs.  Without a second hive you won't have this resource.
Michael Bush
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