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Author Topic: Evolution of Bees - fact or Fiction  (Read 7584 times)

Offline asleitch

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Evolution of Bees - fact or Fiction
« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2005, 07:50:19 AM »
Quote from: Lesli
While I agree that evolution is the best explanation of the mountains of data we have (and does not in any way exclude the presence of a deity), I still want to know:

Why does my dog like to eat bees????

Dunno, our dog used to like Daddy Long legs - do you US folk know this?

like this


Offline Beth Kirkley

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Evolution of Bees - fact or Fiction
« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2005, 09:57:57 AM »
Well, I believe in a type of evolving. I believe what the bible says.. ....

Gen 1:11  Then God said, "Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit after their kind with seed in them"; and it was so.
Gen 1:12  The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit with seed in them, after their kind; and God saw that it was good.

Gen 1:24  Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind"; and it was so.
Gen 1:25  God made the beasts of the earth after their kind, and the cattle after their kind, and everything that creeps on the ground after its kind; and God saw that it was good.

"After their kind" is the key words. I don't believe that a bear came from a fish, or that humans came from monkeys. I don't believe we all started out from a single cell organism that came out of some mud puddle. I believe God created all sorts of different animals, and that there has been changes to some that will cause various types. Just as we see different breeds of dogs that we humans have manipulated into being. BUT.... everytime you see a change, it's with a loss of information - not an addition.

Explaination..... if you breed a medium size dog with a little dog - you generally get smaller dogs - not larger. Those smaller dogs have lost a bit of ability to have a medium size dog. Same goes for the other way around.... they have also lost the ability to have smaller dogs because they are now a mix of the two. The only way to get it back is to do another breeding. But each individual animal out of the breedings has lost part of what it's genetic make-up was.
I do believe in the survival of the fittest thing..... changes due to the need for living. But that has nothing to do with one animal changing into another kind of animal.

I also believe in dinosaurs, but not in the carbon dating they use to try and figure out the age. Heck, someone carbon dated a coke can found in the ocean, and the carbon date was over a million years old. It does not take millions of years to make oil - that's been proven. It does not take millions of years for something to petrify or for stelagtites to form or for coal to happen.... that's also been proven. As a matter of fact, our library has 10 inch long stelagtites on it the last I saw. I've even seen fossils of a fish eating a fish, and a fish giving birth. AND I've seen coal that had recent items in them..... one had a necklace, and another had a small iron pot imbedded in it. The answer I believe for fossils, oil, many of the petrified trees - is a world wide flood. The evidence is there, but you have to look at it with open eyes, not with pre-conceived views. That goes for many Christian too. There are alot of Christians out there that don't believe in dinosaurs and fossils because scientists say they're millions of years old. And since Christians believe in a young earth, they say "well, it doesn't fit, so it just can't be real". The fact that dinos lived it real, they just aren't as old as scientists say.

Anyone REALLY wanting to find out can see some stuff at a site called www.drdino.com, and another at www.creationevidence.org.

Scientists are just as guilty of being close-viewed to what they see. When they see evidence to a young earth, they ignore it and say it just can't be.

More scientific facts that scientists ignore. Our sun is shrinking at a rate of 5 feet an hour - and if our world was millions of years old the sun would have at one time been in the very space the earth is. Also, when radioactive materials degrade, one of the elements it releases is helium. This helium gets trapped in our atmosphere. If we had an old earth, then the air would be so full of helium we couldn't live. Still more.... the magnetic field has been has been decreasing by 6% each year, so if the earth was old, we wouldn't even have a magnetic field. (I keep thinking of more. :) )


Offline beemaster

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Evolution of Bees - fact or Fiction
« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2005, 10:47:06 AM »
First, I haven't read every post - just a general comment though

I pray every night and several times a day, to a God I hope exists and yet - I see a world that I can rationally see as explained by science. I'm one of the luck people who can have their cake and eat it too.

I'm not affraid or asshamed to say I believe that God created all this, but I also think that if the Bible were written TODAY with the scientifuc understanding we currently hold, that the words, meanings and interpretations would be very different.

The Bible was written by man for man with limited knowledge of the Universe, and anything that comes off as "Scientific" or "Magical" might be phenominoms explainable today, but practically wizardry at the time.

But no matter what I read in the Bible ( and I will never be as learned as Beth and many others ) but I still believe that MUCH of the Bible is Parable - explaining things in stories of example to teach us a point about a given topic. Sort of a DICTIONARY of Examples of man's triumps and tragidies and how their faith can make miracles happen.

I don't think that is presumptuous of me, I think it is a valid explaination of the content.

One short example was Noah's Ark (nothng to do with the Musical I saw and commented about in Beemaster Radio) but an interpretation of the Biblical Story - where Noah brought onto the Ark a pair of EVERY CREATURE (which He knew to Exist) not all the creatures of the world. The creatures mentioned in the bible were not fanciful beasts which we know today exist around the globe, but animals in the regions the Bible was written in.

MY POINT - again, the Bible (Inspired by God) but written by man - and man is flawed and NOT all-knowing, so how could he create a book that explains the greatness and secrets of the Universe BEYOND his own knowledge of how things are COMBINED with his ability to imagine and translate things beyond his understanding?

I still think we are all part of God and God is not sitting on some giant thrown with Jesus to his right and the  Holy Spirit to his left - I think that is a Parable or better put - layman's explaination of the relative power of the energy forces that drive the Universe.

I believe we are all a part of that energy force, whether a believer or not - it is at that point I suggest you read any of my posts in the Darkside of the Moon Forum for details on the Universe and our part in it. No need rehashing the same materials - but even the word MATTER is there in the word material - just as God is in the word Good.

Is it so difficult for some of you to see there is a MIDDLE GROUND - does everyone HAVE TO take a left and right stance on EVERY issue. This is why I fear Engineers (who I work with on a daily basis) many NEVER see outside of the chalk-board world they live in. Luckily, there are many people today who realise that God doings CAN be explained by science - we just are not clever enough of a species YET to do the equations.

But when we finally can write an equation that explains it all (from the big bang or beginning of creation to the way the micro-universe works, which is how energy really drives the Universe) we will all understand that GOD created the Universe and that MAN can satisfy even the greatest of doubters by proving it through real-world math.

Just remember, it was only about 150 years ago that EVERYTHING that floated was made of material that floated - no one understood the theory of floatation - just a hundred years ago when man finally undertood the theory of lift and create flight. Why is it so hard to believe that (given enough time) and with the brains that GOD gave us - especially since we are said to be in HIS OWN IMAGE) that man can understand greater details on HOW we all came to be.

I don't think it is impossible to believe that God created us to someday have Godly powers - not to be the God, but to be GODLY - which I think is to be beyond the cave people who broke animal bones apart to eat their marrow and thus survived as a species, but to be MAN in God's Image - and if we constantly improve as become a more peaceful, loving and understanding being - wouldn't we THEN be more in God's Image?

But to become BETTER than what we were (and I hope EVERYONE can agree that MENTALLY we have evolved and we now know our childred can see an average lifespan of 100 years) that SOMETHING is CHANGING - and isn't change for the betterment and survival of a species EVOLUTION??? I think it is, and that goes back to my original point, EVOLUTION is PART of GOD'S PLAN. Why is that so hard for so many people to believe - I really think Darwin's Studies did an injustice to man's quest for the answers - in that, he came about at the wrong place in time. I'm not really sure WHEN a good place in time would have been.

More later....
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