Need Bees Removed?
International
Beekeeping Forums
September 01, 2014, 05:03:37 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: Beemaster's official FACEBOOK page
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar bee removal Login Register Chat  

Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Crowding vs.Too Much Space  (Read 1177 times)
Tucker1
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 314


Location: Pullman, Washington

"The Morning Breaks, The Shadows Flee.....


« on: June 08, 2009, 07:09:01 PM »

Just a quick couple of questions:

A) How can you tell if your hive is getting too crowded?
 

B) Can crowding take place even if there is plenty of empty foundation in place for expansion in the hive?


C) During the summer months, can you have too much empty foundation is place on a given hive?


What I'm trying to understand is............ can I prevent swarming, just by ensuring that the bees have plenty of space for expansion?


Will I create another type of problem by having lots of empty foundation in the hive for the the bees to fill with either brood or honey?  (Summer time only)

Regards,
Tucker

Logged

He who would gather honey must bear the sting of the bees.
homer
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 294

Location: Smithfield, Utah


« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2009, 08:02:13 PM »

You can prevent swarming by having space for bees to be drawing comb and space for the queen to be laying eggs in the brood chamber.  Simply adding space by placing a honey super on top may work if your hive is simply overcrowded, as it will give the bees something to do...(i.i drawing comb and storing honey).  However, if the brood chamber is getting filled with honey, pollen, eggs, and brood then super on top won't help the queen.  You just need to add some empty frames in the brood chamber for the bees to have some comb to draw and the queen a place to lay eggs.

I think that you can have too much room in a hive.  If you place a super on and there are not enough bees to move into it and start using it, then you run the risk of them not being able to defend the hive of inturders.  There may be more reasons.... possible someone else has insight???
Logged
WayneW
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 80


Location: Luzerne County, PA


« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2009, 11:08:57 PM »

Dont let it get over crowded........too much room is bad yes, but if you have 6-7 of 10 frames covered with bees, ADD A BOX...........Here's what happens if you wait too long. Sad

http://gallery.thehoneybeehobbyist.com/
Logged

A beekeeper is not what i am, it's what i aspire to become.
utahbeekeeper
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 137


Location: Utah


WWW
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2009, 11:10:11 PM »

If it is foundation, best practice is still one box at a time.  If you are supering drawn comb, stack 3 mediums and forget it for 3 or 4 weeks.  Granted, my flow is pretty much continuous from May to Sept, so I simply cannot give 'em too many supers early.  After the first harvest around July 4th, they only get 2 more supers so as to get honey bound below by October.

To have too much space in the spring/summer would have to be like bees covering just 6 frames in a deep, and you give them another deep and 3 supers . . . thats prolly too much.  Give plenty of space within reason.  When I super early enough in spring over an excluder, my hives don't seem to get honey bound down below.

Yes, in general, unless your queens genetics are prone to swarming to a fault, you can prevent swarming by giving the hive plenty of space AND ventilation . . . SBB's and a top entrance.  Particularly valuable over an excluder.
Logged

Pleasant words are like an honeycomb, sweet to the soul and health to the bones.  Prov 16:24
Michael Bush
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 13626


Location: Nehawka, NE


WWW
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2009, 07:45:11 PM »

>a) How can you tell if your hive is getting too crowded?

They will be bearding if it's crowded and hot.  Keep in mind, though, they will swarm without being crowded at all, just strong and the right time of year.
 
>B) Can crowding take place even if there is plenty of empty foundation in place for expansion in the hive?

Not crowding, but reproductive swarming can certainly take place with a pile of supers on.

>C) During the summer months, can you have too much empty foundation is place on a given hive?

Not on a STRONG hive.  In a weak hive they may not be able to guard and take care of that much space.

>What I'm trying to understand is............ can I prevent swarming, just by ensuring that the bees have plenty of space for expansion?

No.  Absolutely not.  They don't swarm only because they are crowded.  That is just one cause of swarming that usually takes place later in the year.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesswarmcontrol.htm

>Will I create another type of problem by having lots of empty foundation in the hive for the the bees to fill with either brood or honey?  (Summer time only)

Not if the hive is strong.  But it also won't stop them from swarming.  It will, however keep them from running out of space which is ONE cause of swarming.

It is the goal of any strong hive with the resources to swarm during the prime swarm season in order to reproduce.  To stop this requires intervention.


Logged

Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
Brian D. Bray
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 7369


Location: Anacortes, WA 98221

I really look like this, just ask Cindi.


WWW
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2009, 10:31:46 PM »

Just a quick couple of questions:

a) How can you tell if your hive is getting too crowded?

Bearding is a good indication but 10 frames of drawn comb with bees on all 10 frames means a crowded hive when the foragers get home at night.
Bearding can also signal a switch to swarm mode if it is being done on moderate days and not just the real hot ones.
 

Quote
B) Can crowding take place even if there is plenty of empty foundation in place for expansion in the hive?

One type of crowding can...backfilling the brood chamber with stores making it honey bound.  A honey bound hive can swarm too.


Quote
C) During the summer months, can you have too much empty foundation is place on a given hive?

Not on a strong hive going into a flow.  After the flow yes, as then bees will consolidate the stores.  They can draw combs in 3-4 boxes during a heavy flow bult afterward they might reduce that to 1-2 boxes of cured, capped honey, leaving the remainder in draw or partially drawn comb.  Also a weak hive can have too many supers for it to protect.


Quote
What I'm trying to understand is............ can I prevent swarming, just by ensuring that the bees have plenty of space for expansion?

It is one of the things you can do to help reduce swarming but it must include several other swarm prevention "tricks" as well.  There is no absolute cure for swarming.  Even splitting hives will not stop swarming and sometimes both the parent hive and the split end up swarming.

Quote
Will I create another type of problem by having lots of empty foundation in the hive for the the bees to fill with either brood or honey?  (Summer time only)

Regards,
Tucker

In the case of a strong hive no, but in the case of a weak hive you can end up with a dwindling hive due to overtaxed resources.  Some of the bad things that can happen to an overtaxed hive is robbing, chillbrood, wax moth, and/or SHB.

Logged

Life is a school.  What have you learned?   Brian      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Beemaster's Beekeeping Ring
Previous | Home | Join | Random | Next
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.338 seconds with 21 queries.

Google visited last this page August 28, 2014, 10:35:33 PM
anything