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Author Topic: Cutouts and Gloves  (Read 1794 times)
Grandma_DOG
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« on: June 07, 2009, 01:42:28 PM »

I must be doing something wrong, but I can't even get started on most cutouts without getting stung early.  No way can I go without gloves, the bees get riled up and start stinging my gloves in mass after a while. 

I do them during mid day and  I don't have a bee vac yet (finishing one). Maybe those are reasons they cutouts go rough? Any ideas?
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2009, 02:19:18 PM »

I never use a bee vac.  I try not to smoke them if I can help it as it makes it harder to get them to smell the pheromones in the box I'm putting the brood, and hopefully the queen in.  I always wear gloves.  The more you do them the more efficient you get at getting things done quickly and quietly.
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Michael Bush
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JP
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« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2009, 03:31:39 PM »

Here's where you'll get different opinions when asking different beekeepers. I always have my smoker handy, especially on cut outs.

The bees will generally be the most pissy when accessing the void space, this is when smoke is most needed, imo.

After the void space is carefully accessed, most colonies settle down and become workable, at least in my area.

Bee vacs come in handy when there are a ton of bees and you need them out of the way so you can see what you're doing.

I absolutely hate wearing gloves when working bees anytime, especially on cut outs.

Yesterday's removal I wore my left glove most of the time. After vacuuming a couple of boxes of most of the grouchy bees, they settled down.

I still took about 15 or so stings yesterday, but the smoke helped a bunch as did the vac.

In all I vacuumed four boxes of bees and placed several thousand bees in my set up before shaking them in the end.

I use these from H.D.

They give good dexterity and the bees cannot sting through.


...JP

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wayne
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« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2009, 03:59:22 PM »

  Every beek that does cutouts has their own methods. Some smoke some don't, some vac some don't, some move fast some creep, it all comes down to what works for you.
  I average 6 hits to a cutout, and the friend I work with on many gets a dozen or more.
  You will get stung. In most cases you can't protect every inch all the time and they will get in at least one hit.
  I like mid day for cutouts as the numbers are down and the rest are busy. I leave the brood to the last and have by then, hopefully, a rhythm going so it moves smoothly.
  Some times smoke helps, sometimes it doesn't. It all depends on the mood of the hive.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2009, 09:55:17 PM »

I've found that cutouts vary greatly in their response.  Some quickly get discouraged and docile.  Some just get more and more frenzied.  I always have a smoker handy.  But I sometimes don't use it.
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Michael Bush
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JP
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« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2009, 11:51:18 PM »

I've found that cutouts vary greatly in their response.  Some quickly get discouraged and docile.  Some just get more and more frenzied.  I always have a smoker handy.  But I sometimes don't use it.


You're not kidding about the variations in temperment Michael.

Some are like little puppies licking and kissing you all throughout the removal process. Some are trying to get at any bare spot on the human body, while secretly plotting to go after your family members the next day!


...JP
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iddee
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« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2009, 12:33:54 AM »

>>>>I must be doing something wrong, but I can't even get started on most cutouts without getting stung early.  No way can I go without gloves, the bees get riled up and start stinging my gloves in mass after a while. <<<<

Most likely, that's the reason why. The guard smell is so much a part of your gloves they will never come clean of it. I never wear gloves and most stings I get are from mashing them. Very few stings come from attacks.
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« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2009, 02:40:30 AM »

>>>>I must be doing something wrong, but I can't even get started on most cutouts without getting stung early.  No way can I go without gloves, the bees get riled up and start stinging my gloves in mass after a while. <<<<

Most likely, that's the reason why. The guard smell is so much a part of your gloves they will never come clean of it. I never wear gloves and most stings I get are from mashing them. Very few stings come from attacks.
I had an old timer tell me a long time ago to wash leather with octagon soap - the soap was an anachronism even when he told me about it (It was for a leather tool pouch back when they were almost the only choice.) It can still be found,  but I wonder if, when the cleaning is finished, you can treat the gloves with a "happy" scent. (Brian mentioned crushed flowers for bare hands a while back).
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Grandma_DOG
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« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2009, 04:25:04 AM »

Speaking of Leather.  How do I keep my goatskin gloves nice and soft? AFter a cutout I wash them and they get so rigid.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2009, 05:57:16 AM »

I soak them in FGMO (Food Grade Mineral Oil, mineral oil laxitive) and it softens them right back up.
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Michael Bush
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mgmoore7
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« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2009, 09:11:31 AM »

You might try nitrile gloves.  I buy a box of 100 from Harbor Freight for about $10.  I have not yet been stung through them unless I squeezed a bee.  They can't seem to get a grip to get leverage and insert their stinger. 
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=37052


Since using nitrile gloves for the last 3 months or so, I am able to move faster yet be more gentle.  Since I normally don't reuse them, the alarm pharamone does not linger. 

The one big negative is that they are hot and your hands will sweat alot.  Usually I don't notice until I take them off and the sweat poors out.  This issue IMO is outweighed by the positives.

Two things have reduced a huge amount of frustration for me that was keeping me from enjoying beekeeping nearly as much.  1st was getting a UltraBreeze jacket to replace my veil.  2nd was switching from the bulky beekeeping gloves to nitrile gloves. 

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Rebel Rose Apiary
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« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2009, 10:39:47 AM »

I usually keep a smoker lit and ready in case it is needed. Use the smoker to 'smoke your hand or gloves' from time to time and it will keep the bees off of you for the most part. The smoke stays on your hands or gloves, masking your scent.

I also put a little cool smoke all over myself fro head to tow BEFORE I open up a wall, etc. The bees have great respect for the 'sacred smoke'....the property owners also usually ask me of that is part of some sort of a ritual or something! Wink

There are less bees in the colony after 10:am, as the foragers are out in the fields. The guard bees are still there and once you get them out of the way, it is usually a breeze.....then of course I do have some of my own war stories too....like the time when the lone bee got in my truck on the way home from a rather nasty removal and went  down the front of my t-shirt....just as I noticed a state trooper coming down the road towards me Undecided.....I whipped off the side of the road, the trooper pulled over too....I ripped off my t-shirt.....he stayed in his car! I then removed a bee who had time to bury her stinger into my left (you know embarassed)....and I started looking like Dolly Pardon's HALF SISTER; hey, only one side swelled up!  embarassed

Brenda
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« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2009, 12:17:16 PM »

i wash my gloves in murphys oil soap and work in Schneiders leather conditioner when they are almost dry.  i can't take the stings, so i wear the gloves.  i think you just get used to working in them...or not.  smiley
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« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2009, 12:17:51 PM »

.....I whipped off the side of the road, the trooper pulled over too....I ripped off my t-shirt.....he stayed in his car! I then removed a bee who had time to bury her stinger into my left (you know embarassed)....and I started looking like Dolly Pardon's HALF SISTER; hey, only one side swelled up!  embarassed

Brenda


Thats just too funny!!  lol  but boy I bet that hurt!!  lau  
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MollySuesHoney
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« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2009, 12:49:23 PM »

I have to agree. Every cut out is different.  I do find that around here once the work gets going they are relatively calm, relatively.  I do wear nitrile gloves most of the time.  I need the dexterity.  If I get in a particularly nasty bunch I will double up the gloves.  I've never had a sting through doubled gloves.  But, I do get stung on almost every cut out. 
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Lawrence Underwood

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« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2009, 04:30:15 PM »

has anyone experienced in cut-outs noticed whether locating the queen and brood  kind of quickly makes the bees accept the transition?
(My swarm catching / cut out experience = 0; but curious anyway.)
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« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2009, 04:52:19 PM »

I don't do cut outs but want to ditto the nitrile gloves - they are wonderful for feeling what you are doing and for flexibility.  You can use them several times before discarding them.  I shake baby powder into them and it helps a little both with pulling them on and with the sweating.  I love them because I can work my camera with them on - no problem and can avoid smashing bees because I can feel them.  I like Gempler's 8 mil blue ones.

Linda T
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kathyp
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« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2009, 05:12:20 PM »

Quote
has anyone experienced in cut-outs noticed whether locating the queen and brood  kind of quickly makes the bees accept the transition

that's hard to do most of the time.  you have to kind of work your way toward the middle.  no frames to work with, just bare comb and you can't see until you start removing the outside layers.  i did do two that were walls.  on both, the plywood had comb on it when i removed it and on both, i found the queen.  it did help settle the flying bees into the box with the queen already in there.  that was pure luck and has never happened for me again.

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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