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Author Topic: Brood in the supers  (Read 817 times)
Mason
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« on: June 22, 2009, 03:00:22 PM »

I know how the majority of people feel about queen excluders on this forum.  I have read most of the post regarding them.  However all of the experienced beekeepers in my area use excluders.  On the advice of this forum I did not use an excluder and just dropped my medium on top the brood box.  Now I have brood in my honey super.

Do I just keep plopping more supers on top and only harvest the clean frames?

I have a single brood chamber with a super on top. 
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lotsobees
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« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2009, 03:02:11 PM »

Mason, I don't think an issue. You can wait for the brood to hatch and see if the bees backfill with honey. Also, worse case (like the old folks I know did) you can always just cut out brood when extracting. Smiley
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kathyp
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« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2009, 03:05:03 PM »

you can add more honey supers or you can wait until the brood hatches out and let them backfill the frames with honey.  you can harvest around the brood.  this is a first year hive?  you probably wanted to add a second brood chamber rather than trying to get honey the first year.  

another thing you can do is make sure the queen is below, add the excluder, and let the brood hatch.  problem is, with only one box for brood, you run a great risk of causing them to swarm. she's laying up there because she needs the room.
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Mason
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« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2009, 05:39:43 PM »

I also talked to some locals about my situation,

most recommended another brood box.  The idea is that the worst case scenario is that I will end up with more built out frames for next year.

I think I am going to add the brood box and wait a week to 10 days and let them build it out a little.  If all goes well I will then make sure the queen is down below and maybe put in an excluder with a top entrance.

That queen is rocking.  I did cut out a swarm cell this weekend so I am pretty sure they are planning to swarm because of lack of room.  I hope I can get it taken care of before they make their departure.

and yes,  both my hives are new, started late, no built out frames etc etc.
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kathyp
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« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2009, 05:53:33 PM »

be very careful removing swam cells.  if they swarm and you have removed those cells, you will be queenless.

when you add your brood box, try adding it under the brood super you have, then make sure the queen is below and put your excluder under your honey super.  you may not get any honey, but they will hatch out that brood and at least you won't have to worry about that.  you'll have a drawn honey super for next year.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
utahbeekeeper
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« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2009, 05:55:53 PM »

I like excluders.  I have 3 medium supers for each hive, which I will remove in 2 weeks to extract, and place 2 back on each hive for the late Sept harvest.  After the late harvest, all the empty comb is frozen for a week, placed back into the medium boxes, wrapped in plastic and stored until next May.  I'll admit to some anx as I unwrap the supers each spring, but no sign of wax moths.

The wet comb from the last year draws bees through the excluder.  Just me, I guess, but I HATE to work around brood in the supers.  And cutting away brood would just kill me.  If excluders were nothing but scrap metal, there would not be a market for them.

For drawing out new foundation, it is well to "bait" the super, allowing a frame or two of eggs and larvae to be added to the super.  Then add the excluder, but you MUST FIND THE QUEEN AND GENTLY GUIDE HER INTO THE BROOD BOX.  The bees will continue to run the excluder gauntlet just fine.  I wouldn't run a hive without an excluder, but then I am fortunate to have a long flow.
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iddee
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« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2009, 07:43:50 PM »

#1... Remove queen cells and end up queenless, as Kathy said.

#2... If they only have enough honey to surround the brood chamber and not a full super above, they need it for the winter. Rob supers with brood in them and watch your bees starve. Unless, of course, you want to feed all winter and into the spring, and hope they can survive on sugar water alone.

I don't use excluders because I won't take honey unless it is excess that the bees don't need.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2009, 07:55:02 PM »

>Now I have brood in my honey super.

IMO you have brood in a medium brood box...

>Do I just keep plopping more supers on top and only harvest the clean frames?

Yes.

>I have a single brood chamber with a super on top. 

That might be the norm in your part of the country but my queens often fill three deeps or four mediums with brood.
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Mason
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« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2009, 11:02:40 AM »

Ok that all makes sense,

I did run up to a local experienced beekeeper yesterday evening.  After explaining my situation in great detail we have determined that I have a robbing situation. The bees from the strong hive are stealing from the weaker one.

Here is my plan.

1. put an entrance reducer on the robbing victim

2. replace my medium super with an additional brood box. (needs to be built out)

3. put the bees from the medium super in the new brood box

4. set the medium super frames off to the side and allow the bees to rob it out

4. install hive beetle traps

My short term goal is to keep my bees alive

My longer term goal is to catch the late Kudzu bloom and get some of that blue honey that taste like grapes
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lotsobees
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« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2009, 11:04:20 AM »

Excellent -- glad you connected with a local, experienced beek. Smiley
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Psalm 119 - "How sweet are Your words to my taste, Sweeter than honey to my mouth!"
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