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Author Topic: Things one can't believe.  (Read 4503 times)
Jerrymac
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« on: June 04, 2009, 01:24:36 PM »

Why would someone like David Carradine commit suicide  huh

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090604/ap_en_tv/as_thailand_david_carradine
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« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2009, 01:30:05 PM »

Why would someone like David Carradine commit suicide  huh

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090604/ap_en_tv/as_thailand_david_carradine


I could think of several reasons, but without any evidence to show which one it might be, it would be pointless to list possible reasons.  But I'm sure he had his own reasons.
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« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2009, 02:11:35 PM »

I can only think of a couple of reasons that are relatively common in his age group. He may have been diagnosed with a terminal disease, or possibly was having severe financial problems. I don't claim to know, it's just the only things that come to mind.
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« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2009, 07:35:58 PM »

He always looked like he should be wearing red nikes,drinking cool-aid and waiting for the aliens to come.
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Bee Happy
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« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2009, 08:03:54 PM »

..that sounds kind of fun except add shades  cool and delete kool aid. tongue
or at least writing about the aliens landing.
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« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2009, 09:06:24 PM »

I guess grasshopper wanted to go home

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JP
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« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2009, 09:50:00 PM »

Kwai Chang Caine, may you rest in peace. He will be missed. Its quite a shame when a public figure goes out like this.


...JP

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« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2009, 10:20:34 PM »

He was seventy something ,I remember watching his father in some horror movies when I was younger.
I believe that sometimes people in older age hurt with arthuris or other types of ache they just give up. One nevers knows whats within anothers mind unless they verbally share it.
I'm  going to hang around long as I can . I'll have plenty sleeping time later. Smiley
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2009, 10:54:25 PM »

Update:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090605/ap_on_en_ot/as_obit_carradine

I must not be too far off the mark. Seems other can't believe it either.
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« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2009, 12:29:58 AM »

He was seventy something ,I remember watching his father in some horror movies when I was younger.
I believe that sometimes people in older age hurt with arthuris or other types of ache they just give up. One nevers knows whats within anothers mind unless they verbally share it.
I'm  going to hang around long as I can . I'll have plenty sleeping time later. Smiley

I would lay odds on the probability that he wasn't as decrepit as I am, meaning I probably have more reason to commit suicide than he does.  Suicide is a cowards way out of life.  Our reason for living is to learn and suicide is quiting school before we graduate.  A natural death is a graduation.  Accidental deaths are a pass but suicide is a failure.

Who kills themselves purposefully in the middle of a possitive project (making a movie), accidental like an overdose of drungs is more understandable.
Murder made to look like a suicide is not out of the question either.
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« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2009, 06:26:20 AM »

Perhaps he died happy.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090605/ap_on_en_mo/as_carradine_death

Some private things about a person sometimes come out when they die.
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« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2009, 05:15:10 AM »

I don't necessarily believe that suicide is a cowardly act.  It can be, but isn't necessarily so.  It really depends on the circumstances. 

Regardless, it's possible that he might not have committed suicide anyway.  I mean, if he did commit suicide, why did he hang himself naked?  That doesn't makes sense to me.  Of course, for all I know those Shaolin monks were ticked off at the way he portrayed them in movies and took their revenge or something.  None of us were there (I hope), so it's very difficult to say with any degree of certainty.
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JP
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« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2009, 08:57:14 AM »

I don't necessarily believe that suicide is a cowardly act.  It can be, but isn't necessarily so.  It really depends on the circumstances. 

Regardless, it's possible that he might not have committed suicide anyway.  I mean, if he did commit suicide, why did he hang himself naked?  That doesn't makes sense to me.  Of course, for all I know those Shaolin monks were ticked off at the way he portrayed them in movies and took their revenge or something.  None of us were there (I hope), so it's very difficult to say with any degree of certainty.

You just had to go there didn't you, because Sarge, in your very essence, you like to stir things up, makes you feel better, apparently.

Yes Sarge, David Carradine was killed by Shaolin monks! Give me a friggin' break!

Quote "I don't necessarily believe that suicide is a cowardly act."

Unless all love ones were notified ahead of time that the person committing suicide was offing him/herself, it is undoubtedly a cowardly and most selfish act.


...JP

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Bee Happy
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« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2009, 11:57:13 AM »

the Shaolin monks now aren't the real deal - they're chicom military. While very very skilled 'warriors' the chicom government is leaving out a critical part of what Shaolin IS. -they're fake copies of the real thing.
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« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2009, 12:58:39 PM »

From the tidbits I have been hearing and reading about, the entire things seems rather weird to me. huh

On the issue of suicide, I used to think, as many do, it is a selfish and cowardly act, and to some extent it is. There's a side of it though, that many don't experience firsthand, which convinced me that the majority of people who have reached this point are no longer in a rational state of mind, and although it may be selfish and leave a huge wake of destruction (ie family and loved ones dumped suddenly into a cauldron of emotional turmoil), the suicide committer is usually not cognizant of the damage he/she is doing at the time. It's a real drag and a stupid point of no return, but there's not much rationality or thought going on at the time. It's a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
I'm not referring to the multitude of "suicide threaters", but the real deal.
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Bee Happy
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« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2009, 01:47:27 PM »

from the articles I've seen - it was an accident.
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« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2009, 03:03:27 PM »

from the articles I've seen - it was an accident.

If you want to call engaging in auto-erotic self asphixiation an accident.  Safe words don't mean a lot when you are alone.

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« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2009, 04:20:46 PM »


If you want to call engaging in auto-erotic self asphixiation an accident. 


Yeah, it's kinda like the stuff you see in movies. shocked Wink
Maybe I'm just old-fashioned, but tying things around your genitals, much less your neck,  just sounds masochistic, and like there's not much meaning in life. Call me crazy. rolleyes  It's not that it matters to me personally- I just have difficulty relating to it. It sort of takes the suicide "motivation" off the table.
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Bee Happy
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« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2009, 04:40:18 PM »

on the bright side, he won't have to deal with the embarrassment of having been rushed to the hospital after being found unconscious in the same circumstances.
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« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2009, 04:53:41 PM »

on the bright side, he won't have to deal with the embarrassment of having been rushed to the hospital after being found unconscious in the same circumstances.

Good point there. Smiley

Once, I was driving home from work, snacking on some Hot Tamales candy, when I almost choked to death on one. The vision that popped into my head, while I was wondering if I was going to die on the highway,  was seeing my obituary in the local paper stating that I had choked to death on candy- what an embarrassment.  grin
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« Reply #20 on: June 09, 2009, 05:01:37 PM »

You just had to go there didn't you, because Sarge, in your very essence, you like to stir things up, makes you feel better, apparently.

Yes Sarge, David Carradine was killed by Shaolin monks! Give me a friggin' break!

I see my attemps at humor are wasted on you, grasshopper.

Quote "I don't necessarily believe that suicide is a cowardly act."

Unless all love ones were notified ahead of time that the person committing suicide was offing him/herself, it is undoubtedly a cowardly and most selfish act.


...JP

What about the father that comits suicide so his son with a heart defect can have his heart?  Or the soldier who dives onto a live grenade to save his friends?  Cowardly acts?  I don't think so.

Of course, I also don't think someone deciding to die on their own terms instead of at the mercy of (pick a terminal illness here) is a cowardly act either... so maybe you consider my point of view a little skewed, but I believe a person should own their own lives from start to finish, and if a person lives their life right, they shouldn't owe anyone anything, including any obligation to stick around on this planet any longer than they want to.
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JP
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« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2009, 09:29:53 PM »

"What about the father that comits suicide so his son with a heart defect can have his heart?  Or the soldier who dives onto a live grenade to save his friends?  Cowardly acts?  I don't think so."

Either one of these examples are not what we think of when the word suicide is used.

I would not classify either as suicide because each act is unselfish. These are decisions that put others first, where typical cases of suicide loved ones come second.

When people commit suicide in the typical sense of the word, loved ones are left with deep guilt and hurt, wondering what they may have done wrong or what they could have done differently to prevent it.

No, I didn't like the joke either, because I am lamenting the loss of David Carradine. I found it disrespectful.


...JP
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« Reply #22 on: June 09, 2009, 09:43:00 PM »

"What about the father that comits suicide so his son with a heart defect can have his heart?  Or the soldier who dives onto a live grenade to save his friends?  Cowardly acts?  I don't think so."

Either one of these examples are not what we think of when the word suicide is used.

I would not classify either as suicide because each act is unselfish. These are decisions that put others first, where typical cases of suicide loved ones come second.

When people commit suicide in the typical sense of the word, loved ones are left with deep guilt and hurt, wondering what they may have done wrong or what they could have done differently to prevent it.

But the definition of suicide does not stipulate that it must be for selfish reasons... so like I said before... suicide in itself is not necessarily selfish, it depends on the circumstances.


No, I didn't like the joke either, because I am lamenting the loss of David Carradine. I found it disrespectful.


...JP


So the joke was disrespectful but calling him selfish isn't?  hmm...
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JP
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« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2009, 10:10:36 PM »

Who called him selfish buddy? His death apparently was accidental.


...JP
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« Reply #24 on: June 09, 2009, 10:13:43 PM »

Who called him selfish buddy? His death apparently was accidental.


...JP

Well, who knows yet... the investigation is still young and they have been bouncing between different theories so far.  It may still end up being suicide.
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« Reply #25 on: June 09, 2009, 11:04:08 PM »

SgtMjr, Once again you have shown that you know no bounds in an attempt to create and maintain controversy. 

For the record Suicide is selfish!  Why?   Suicide is revenge on a person's family for giving them life.
It is the also only "crime" in which the victim sentences the perpetrator to death.

Self inflicted death, whether suicide or not, is not a humorous matter.  Your Bad Taste is showing again.

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« Reply #26 on: June 09, 2009, 11:07:16 PM »

SgtMjr, Once again you have shown that you know no bounds in an attempt to create and maintain controversy. 

For the record Suicide is selfish!  Why?   Suicide is revenge on a person's family for giving them life.
It is the also only "crime" in which the victim sentences the perpetrator to death.

Self inflicted death, whether suicide or not, is not a humorous matter.  Your Bad Taste is showing again.



So you think a soldier diving onto a live grenade to save his fellow soldiers is selfish revenge on a person's family?  Give ME a break!  That's just asinine.
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« Reply #27 on: June 09, 2009, 11:12:38 PM »

SgtMjr, Once again you have shown that you know no bounds in an attempt to create and maintain controversy. 

For the record Suicide is selfish!  Why?   Suicide is revenge on a person's family for giving them life.
It is the also only "crime" in which the victim sentences the perpetrator to death.

Self inflicted death, whether suicide or not, is not a humorous matter.  Your Bad Taste is showing again.



So you think a soldier diving onto a live grenade to save his fellow soldiers is selfish revenge on a person's family?  Give ME a break!  That's just asinine.

A soldier putting his life above others is not suicide. I thought I had explained that to you already. Why are you so confused?


...JP
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« Reply #28 on: June 09, 2009, 11:22:58 PM »

SgtMjr, Once again you have shown that you know no bounds in an attempt to create and maintain controversy. 

For the record Suicide is selfish!  Why?   Suicide is revenge on a person's family for giving them life.
It is the also only "crime" in which the victim sentences the perpetrator to death.

Self inflicted death, whether suicide or not, is not a humorous matter.  Your Bad Taste is showing again.



So you think a soldier diving onto a live grenade to save his fellow soldiers is selfish revenge on a person's family?  Give ME a break!  That's just asinine.

You really purposely grasp at straws don't you.  Re-read what I highlighted.  A soldier diving on a live grenade is a tradgety and not humorous. 
It is sad that such a thing has to happen. 

You are now past the point of Bad Taste and into being purposely Offensive.
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« Reply #29 on: June 09, 2009, 11:36:40 PM »

A person that lives with pain and misery day after day and has nothing to look forward to except more days of pain and misery for as long as he lives?

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« Reply #30 on: June 09, 2009, 11:44:00 PM »

a soldier putting his life above others is not suicide. I thought I had explained that to you already. Why are you so confused?


...JP


Just because you don't consider that suicide doesn't mean that it doesn't fit the established definition of suicide.  The scenario of a soldier diving onto live ordinance to save his fellow soldiers clearly fits the definition of suicide as given below:

"su⋅i⋅cide  /ˈsuəˌsaɪd/  Show Spelled [soo-uh-sahyd]  Show IPA noun, verb, -cid⋅ed, -cid⋅ing.
–noun
1.the intentional taking of one's own life.
2.destruction of one's own interests or prospects: Buying that house was financial suicide.
3.a person who intentionally takes his or her own life.
–verb (used without object)
4.to commit suicide.
–verb (used with object)
5.to kill (oneself)."
From: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/suicidehttp://dictionary.reference.com/browse/suicide
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« Reply #31 on: June 09, 2009, 11:48:50 PM »

SgtMjr, Once again you have shown that you know no bounds in an attempt to create and maintain controversy.  

For the record Suicide is selfish!  Why?   Suicide is revenge on a person's family for giving them life.
It is the also only "crime" in which the victim sentences the perpetrator to death.

Self inflicted death, whether suicide or not, is not a humorous matter.  Your Bad Taste is showing again.



So you think a soldier diving onto a live grenade to save his fellow soldiers is selfish revenge on a person's family?  Give ME a break!  That's just asinine.

You really purposely grasp at straws don't you.  Re-read what I highlighted.  a soldier diving on a live grenade is a tradgety and not humorous.  
It is sad that such a thing has to happen.  

You are now past the point of Bad Taste and into being purposely Offensive.

Any dope can see that I wasn't being humorous in that part.  I've given exactly two attempts at humor in this thread... they are here:
for all I know those Shaolin monks were ticked off at the way he portrayed them in movies and took their revenge or something.
and here:
I see my attemps at humor are wasted on you, grasshopper.
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« Reply #32 on: June 09, 2009, 11:59:10 PM »

a person that lives with pain and misery day after day and has nothing to look forward to except more days of pain and misery for as long as he lives?

To me, it would seem selfish for the "loved ones" to want a person in such a case to continue living against that person's own desires just for their own pleasure or peace of mind.

Of course, my opinion doesn't count for much around here... apparantly neither do definitions of words.   rolleyes
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« Reply #33 on: June 10, 2009, 12:03:26 AM »

If you want to disect the word to death, go ahead and fight amongst yourself. Most normal people view the word as a selfish act.


...JP  
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« Reply #34 on: June 10, 2009, 12:08:52 AM »

No one in their right mind wants to see a loved one suffer. Before ending one's life we should give our loved ones the opportunity to say goodbye, this is the honorable thing to do.

Receiving a note after the fact imo, is cowardly.


...JP
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« Reply #35 on: June 10, 2009, 12:12:43 AM »

If you want to disect the word to death, go ahead and fight amongst yourself. Most normal people view the word as a selfish act.


...JP  

Who's disecting?  I'm just going to the dictionary, and I posted the entire entry. 

Perhaps the problem here is that some people have difficulty thinking about alternate possibilities than the most common circumstances.  I'm not going to apologise for being more intelligent than that however.
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« Reply #36 on: June 10, 2009, 12:18:56 AM »

Like I said

Most normal people view the word as a selfish act.


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« Reply #37 on: June 10, 2009, 12:29:46 AM »

a soldier putting his life above others is not suicide. I thought I had explained that to you already. Why are you so confused?


...JP


Just because you don't consider that suicide doesn't mean that it doesn't fit the established definition of suicide.  The scenario of a soldier diving onto live ordinance to save his fellow soldiers clearly fits the definition of suicide as given below:

"su⋅i⋅cide  /ˈsuəˌsaɪd/  Show Spelled [soo-uh-sahyd]  Show IPA noun, verb, -cid⋅ed, -cid⋅ing.
–noun
1.the intentional taking of one's own life.
2.destruction of one's own interests or prospects: Buying that house was financial suicide.
3.a person who intentionally takes his or her own life.
–verb (used without object)
4.to commit suicide.
–verb (used with object)
5.to kill (oneself)."
From: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/suicidehttp://dictionary.reference.com/browse/suicide


Ok. the dictionary provides a very basic definition. But it misses a critical nuance. (It fails by assuming abject depression or insanity.)
   I think the necessary term for soldiers who dive on grenades to save others or a father who gives his life so his son could live (what planet is this permitted on?) would earn the distinction of self-sacrifice, selflessly giving one's own life for the sake of another or others.
granted -a kind of suicide - but not without that critical separation that sets self sacrifice well above mere suicide through despondency or insanity.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2009, 12:51:07 AM by Bee Happy » Logged

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« Reply #38 on: June 10, 2009, 12:31:46 AM »

Like I said

Most normal people view the word as a selfish act.


...JP  

Fortuneately you're no longer "most normal people" because you now have the opportunity to accept that not everything fits into a narrowly construed beliefs and that PERHAPS, just perhaps people shouldn't be judged as cowards or selfish until ALL of the circumstances surrounding their situation are examined and understood.

Or not, whatever.
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« Reply #39 on: June 10, 2009, 12:48:20 AM »

a person that lives with pain and misery day after day and has nothing to look forward to except more days of pain and misery for as long as he lives?

I've been living with acute/chronic pain for more than 30 years, I'm only 60 now. so I plan on living at least another 10 years with just as much, if not more, pain as I have been.  The human mind can only tolerate so much pain, after that they pass out.  You don't feel pain while unconscious or under anesthesia.  I do take pain medication to curb to high points.  Most people who encounter such pain as I have on a daily basis are usually in the hospital.  From personal experience enduring acute pain is not a reason for committing suicide.

Any dope can see that I wasn't being humorous in that part.  I've given exactly two attempts at humor in this thread... they are here:
for all I know those Shaolin monks were ticked off at the way he portrayed them in movies and took their revenge or something.
and here:
I see my attemps at humor are wasted on you, grasshopper.

SgtMaj as usual is now resorting to name calling, stronger words to follow I'm sure.

What SgtMaj seems to be unaware of is that while sarcasm might accidently be humorous, sarcasm, in and of itself is not humor.

He needs to learn how to indicate his meaning more outright by using:  Smiley  Wink grin cheesy evil banana devil yippie chick rant lau or some other type of signal so members of the forum have a better idea of what his intent is.  I think all of us on the forum deserve the courtesy.

Quote
Ok. the dictionary provides a very basic definition. But it misses a critical nuance. (It fails by assuming abject depression or insanity.)
   I think the necessary term for soldiers who dive on grenades to save others or a father who gives his life so his son could lie (what planet is this permitted on?) would earn the distinction of self-sacrifice, selflessly giving one's own life for the sake of another or others.

Self sacrifice, while a form of suicide, is a valiant effort, but it is still a tradject occurrance.
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« Reply #40 on: June 10, 2009, 12:59:06 AM »

Any dope can see that I wasn't being humorous in that part.  I've given exactly two attempts at humor in this thread... they are here:
for all I know those Shaolin monks were ticked off at the way he portrayed them in movies and took their revenge or something.
and here:
I see my attemps at humor are wasted on you, grasshopper.

SgtMaj as usual is now resorting to name calling, stronger words to follow I'm sure.

What SgtMaj seems to be unaware of is that while sarcasm might accidently be humorous, sarcasm, in and of itself is not humor.

He needs to learn how to indicate his meaning more outright by using:  Smiley  Wink grin cheesy evil banana devil yippie chick rant lau or some other type of signal so members of the forum have a better idea of what his intent is.  I think all of us on the forum deserve the courtesy.

And I think that if a person is incapable of understanding the meaning of what someone says... with or without smilies... then they might want to consider refraining from weighing in on what that person said until they do understand the meaning.

By the way, I didn't call you any names there... what I said was "Any dope can see that I wasn't being humorous in that part."  and I don't believe for one second that you truely don't know the difference between this and a joke (or sarcasm for that matter):

I don't necessarily believe that suicide is a cowardly act.  It can be, but isn't necessarily so.  It really depends on the circumstances.

Brian you may be full of crap here, but you're not that stupid.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2009, 03:02:57 AM by SgtMaj » Logged
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« Reply #41 on: June 10, 2009, 01:16:15 AM »

Rude and Crude, right SgtMaj?  Make your point regardless of who you offend?

Under the rules of debate the object is to win your argument by the use of logic, history, science, and occasionally, humor.  Your opponent is referred to as "My Esteemed Collegue or Opponent" in a respectful way.

Unfortunately your logic is lacking and your respect is non-existant.  I haven't reported your bombasts to the moderators but I can understand why may have and why you've gotten the warnings from the BeeMaster on this subject.  I am perfectly capable of fighting my own battles but since you obviously relish the hate and constrination you create, mistaking it for intellectual repartee, anything I have to say on the matter is only going to fall on deaf ears.

In order to listen one must close their mouth.    lau
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« Reply #42 on: June 10, 2009, 01:57:45 AM »

Rude and Crude, right SgtMaj?  Make your point regardless of who you offend?

Under the rules of debate the object is to win your argument by the use of logic, history, science, and occasionally, humor.  Your opponent is referred to as "My Esteemed Collegue or Opponent" in a respectful way.

Unfortunately your logic is lacking and your respect is non-existant.  I haven't reported your bombasts to the moderators but I can understand why may have and why you've gotten the warnings from the BeeMaster on this subject.  I am perfectly capable of fighting my own battles but since you obviously relish the hate and constrination you create, mistaking it for intellectual repartee, anything I have to say on the matter is only going to fall on deaf ears.

In order to listen one must close their mouth.    lau

You're right... clearly my logic was lacking when I accepted the dictionary definition instead of someone's personal and arbitrary definition for the word... how silly could I be?

Yeah, you're right, I don't care who I offend too much.  Some people like other people, but I'm not one of those people.  I tend to think that the world would be a pretty awesome place if it weren't for all the people crowded together on it.  But perhaps I should try to consider republicans' feelings more... that seems to be more important than ideas to them (not that this is a political topic, but the group here is by in large republican).

And who could have seen complaints comming?  Oh yeah... I forgot that I did... back in April, when I said:
I have to say, this board has some great groupthink going on here.  Anyone with a dissenting point of view has been intimidated out of expressing it here.  Between exclusion from the clique and the group dogpile your little gang has quite handily managed to silence the opposing viewpoints around here.  That doesn't make you right though, it just makes you a bully.  You'll find that I'm not so easily bullied though. I'm sure the next thing you'll try is getting your gang to complain to the mods/admins until you at least think you can force me either out, or to at least keep my mouth shut while you preach your political dogma.

... and what's that?  you want me to keep my mouth shut?  I'm shocked!  (that's sarcasm... since you say you have some kind of difficulty distinguishing it in my posts)

You know, sometimes I get tired of being so right so frequently.
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« Reply #43 on: June 10, 2009, 02:03:36 AM »

or a father who gives his life so his son could live (what planet is this permitted on?)


Hre's an example of something similar happening:

http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,22816.0.html

I just have a hard time with judging someone like that to be a selfish coward before even bothing to examine his situation.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2009, 03:04:13 AM by SgtMaj » Logged
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« Reply #44 on: June 10, 2009, 05:56:14 AM »

a person that lives with pain and misery day after day and has nothing to look forward to except more days of pain and misery for as long as he lives?

I've been living with acute/chronic pain for more than 30 years, I'm only 60 now. so I plan on living at least another 10 years with just as much, if not more, pain as I have been.  The human mind can only tolerate so much pain, after that they pass out.  You don't feel pain while unconscious or under anesthesia.  I do take pain medication to curb to high points.  Most people who encounter such pain as I have on a daily basis are usually in the hospital.  From personal experience enduring acute pain is not a reason for committing suicide.

Have you ever seen a person in the hospital suffering so much that the "loved ones" stop coming around because they can't stand to see the person suffering? Ever hear of inducing coma because even under anesthesia they are suffering?

Lying around a hospital in such conditions, racking up medical bills just ain't no way to live.

And can you honestly say you never had the thoughts of "When will it end?" "Is it worth it?"

I take these pills to keep me alive and they pretty much make me useless for the biggest part of the day. I walk around in a fog. My head feels like a sloshing bucket of water under pressure like a balloon. My limbs feel weak and I stumble around a lot. My eye lids feel like weights have been put on them and I finally just give up and go back to bed. My head hurts all the times. Medication keeps it to a dull annoyance most of the time but then there are those times nothing helps.  Can't get a good nights sleep and feel tired and run down all the time.

I go around cracking jokes trying to keep other people laughing so that I don't drag them down into sadness. That makes me feel a bit better. And I will probably never commit suicide. But I also understand when living isn't living.

Are you calling it cowardly because you think they should walk up and say, "Oh. By the way. I am going to end my life today. Thought I would give you a chance to say good-bye."

Now they would have to go through the whole discussion of why they shouldn't do it. They would be subjected to more pain and suffering because they would be committed to the mental institution.

So it makes you mad they went and done this. You want to take it as a personal insult against you. Now that is pretty selfish. Don't judge the person you don't know or know how they felt.
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« Reply #45 on: June 10, 2009, 10:22:28 PM »

a person that lives with pain and misery day after day and has nothing to look forward to except more days of pain and misery for as long as he lives?

I've been living with acute/chronic pain for more than 30 years, I'm only 60 now. so I plan on living at least another 10 years with just as much, if not more, pain as I have been.  The human mind can only tolerate so much pain, after that they pass out.  You don't feel pain while unconscious or under anesthesia.  I do take pain medication to curb to high points.  Most people who encounter such pain as I have on a daily basis are usually in the hospital.  From personal experience enduring acute pain is not a reason for committing suicide.

Have you ever seen a person in the hospital suffering so much that the "loved ones" stop coming around because they can't stand to see the person suffering? Ever hear of inducing coma because even under anesthesia they are suffering?

Why would anyone refuse to see an ailing friend or relative that is suffering from acute pain and other health problems?  Each opportunity to see them may be the last time ever in this life, why give that up just because it makes a person ill or unconfortable to see the person suffer.  The kindest thing we can do is to be there for them, even if it's only for a few seconds each visit. 
I have no problem with inducing a coma to reduce the pain, but a coma is not suicide, if you can't understand the difference then I don't know what to say.

Quote
Lying around a hospital in such conditions, racking up medical bills just ain't no way to live.

Beem there, done that.  It is not a fun way to live but it is living and as long as we live we have the opportunity to gain knowledge and experience that will be invaluable to us after death.


Quote
And can you honestly say you never had the thoughts of "When will it end?" "Is it worth it?"

I have thought about when will it end, but I've never thought that it wasn't worth it. 

Quote
I take these pills to keep me alive and they pretty much make me useless for the biggest part of the day. I walk around in a fog. My head feels like a sloshing bucket of water under pressure like a balloon. My limbs feel weak and I stumble around a lot. My eye lids feel like weights have been put on them and I finally just give up and go back to bed. My head hurts all the times. Medication keeps it to a dull annoyance most of the time but then there are those times nothing helps.  Can't get a good nights sleep and feel tired and run down all the time.

That sounds like you might even have some idea of what my day is like 24/7.

Quote
I go around cracking jokes trying to keep other people laughing so that I don't drag them down into sadness. That makes me feel a bit better. And I will probably never commit suicide. But I also understand when living isn't living.

Humor is always a relief and yes laughing makes a person forget their pain for just a few seconds.  They are very thankful for that.  Being in chronic pain and/or terminally ill doesn't remove a persons sense of humor or the ability to laugh at a good joke or fanny situation.  I had a friend die of Lou Gherig's Disease, At the end the only part of their body that still functioned was the brain.  I would call that living when it might not be worth it, the other is senality to the point of vegitative state.  But in neither case is suicide an appropriate solution.

Quote
Are you calling it cowardly because you think they should walk up and say, "Oh. By the way. I am going to end my life today. Thought I would give you a chance to say good-bye."

No, I'm calling it cowardly because suicide is an insult to God, their parents, their family, and themselves. 

Quote
Now they would have to go through the whole discussion of why they shouldn't do it. They would be subjected to more pain and suffering because they would be committed to the mental institution.


In Washington and Oregon we have the "Death with Dignity Act" that allows terminally ill people to end their own life by medical means.  It is still suicide, still a tragic event, but there is sufficient safeguards to prevent a hasty miscarriage.  Even with that option less than 2% of terminally ill people choose that option.  Why?  Because when they've had time to think about it, discuss it with family and friends, they come to realize that by choosing an early death they are cheating their loved ones.
Most suicide attempts are a call for help, most successful suicides are an accident of miscalculation.  At least that is so in the case of "Mental Illness" and other suicides are still miscalculations because of the euphoric sexual or high that is achieved in close calls. 

The intentional self destruction called suicide is what we were discussing and that is what is cowardly.  Unintentional deaths, whether suicide or by some other means may not be cowardly but they are still tragic.

Quote
So it makes you mad they went and done this. You want to take it as a personal insult against you. Now that is pretty selfish. Don't judge the person you don't know or know how they felt.

It doesn't made me mad, it makes me very sad.  It is not an insult to or against me, it is an insult to God and themselves.  I don't judge, not trying to, but I do have the right to express my opinion and from my own personal experience I have spiritual reasons for that opinion.  Most people never have the opportunity to talk to or see those who have passed on or those who have yet to come out of or into this world, I've had both.  It is that experience that gives me my perspective.  Ending life early for purely selfish reasons is a cowards way out and an insult to God and themselves.
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« Reply #46 on: June 10, 2009, 10:26:30 PM »

Time to say GOODBYE to Sarge, enough of his baiting other members into fighting and bickering with him - he has made every efforts on several occasions that has lead to warnings and in his many replies of "this post" he has called members several names and insulted their intelligence and made every effort to get them to act and respond in the same ways he does.

For that, it is time he goes - no more warnings, no more insults and I hope those of you who have been aggravated by him enjoy the peace. Be kind to each other, I know you all play nice, but this person is far to confrontational and argumentative, which wouldn't be so bad EXCEPT he enjoys it too much.
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« Reply #47 on: June 11, 2009, 05:34:06 PM »


AP Exclusive: No Carradine suicide, expert says

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090611/ap_on_en_mo/us_carradine_death

LOS ANGELES – The forensics expert hired by David Carradine's family has concluded that the "Kung Fu" actor did not commit suicide, but said that more information was needed from Thai investigators before the cause of death could be determined.
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« Reply #48 on: June 11, 2009, 06:07:42 PM »

Wow Jerrymac- I was just about to log on and post that very story. You and I must frequent the same news sites. Smiley
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