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Author Topic: Letter from a Dodge dealer  (Read 11657 times)

Offline dragonfly

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Re: Letter from a Dodge dealer
« Reply #80 on: June 09, 2009, 11:35:38 PM »
Come on Sarge. :roll: Who do you think is pulling the strings behind this entire fiasco? It's not Chrysler anymore. It's GM- the new Government Motors.  It and the former GM have been taken possession of by the Federal Government.  It's a government move to shut down dealerships to "save money". Since when has the US government done anything to save money?  They put billions of taxpayer dollars into what they know is a failing corporation, rather than letting it fail, as it should have if this were a free market economy. And now they are worried about 2 billion a year that Chrysler says it spends on dealerships (I would love to see the expenses itemization), they screw over the secured bond-holders and inform them they will get, what was it, 10 cents on the dollar? Meanwhile, the UAW will be making 55 cents on the dollar, and they get to keep their bennies and perks. This entire thing is a sham being committed by a bunch of theives in DC as political payback.

Offline SgtMaj

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Re: Letter from a Dodge dealer
« Reply #81 on: June 10, 2009, 12:01:46 AM »
Come on Sarge. :roll: Who do you think is pulling the strings behind this entire fiasco? It's not Chrysler anymore. It's GM- the new Government Motors.  It and the former GM have been taken possession of by the Federal Government.  It's a government move to shut down dealerships to "save money". Since when has the US government done anything to save money?

Well Chrysler and GM are not the same, and while the UAW *MAY* end up profiting from GM's debaucle (and it's a big IF there because they are taking part ownership in GM as part of GM's bankruptcy case, and taking part ownership in GM may end up barring the UAW from being able to collectively bargain on behalf of the employees, which could end up costing the UAW a lot of money if that does end up being the case)... But again, GM and Chrysler are separate... so how is the UAW profiting from anything Chrysler is doing?

As far as since when the government has ever been concerned about saving any money... since around January 20th of this year.   ;)

They put billions of taxpayer dollars into what they know is a failing corporation, rather than letting it fail, as it should have if this were a free market economy. And now they are worried about 2 billion a year that Chrysler says it spends on dealerships (I would love to see the expenses itemization), they screw over the secured bond-holders and inform them they will get, what was it, 10 cents on the dollar? Meanwhile, the UAW will be making 55 cents on the dollar, and they get to keep their bennies and perks. This entire thing is a sham being committed by a bunch of theives in DC as political payback.

Payback for what?  What did the UAW ever do for Bush?  And how is losing 45 cents of every dollar the same thing as making money?  Also, I'm quite sure that if Chrysler was lying about losing money on these dealerships, the few republicans left in office... or the dealerships being shut down would make a big stink about it... not agree with it.  But if you want an itemized list of expenses, I'm sure you can get one somewhere.

Oh, and saying "come on Sarge." is not the same thing as backing up your allegations with facts, nor is it answering the question posed which was how the UAW is profiting from Chrysler shutting down dealerships?

Offline SgtMaj

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Re: Letter from a Dodge dealer
« Reply #82 on: June 10, 2009, 12:39:54 AM »
Ok, so I found out the UAW will in fact be benefiting from Chrysler's bankruptcy case... but still not from closing these dealerships...

http://money.cnn.com/2009/06/09/news/economy/supreme_court_chrysler/index.htm

Online kathyp

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Re: Letter from a Dodge dealer
« Reply #83 on: June 10, 2009, 01:06:39 AM »
Quote
Payback for what?

payback to the union for their heavy support of obama during the campaign.  his first concern has been for the unions and not for good business practice or good government practice.  of course, unions are basicaly socialist organizations, so....guess it makes a kind of sense.
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline SgtMaj

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Re: Letter from a Dodge dealer
« Reply #84 on: June 10, 2009, 01:16:10 AM »
Quote
Payback for what?

payback to the union for their heavy support of obama during the campaign.  his first concern has been for the unions and not for good business practice or good government practice.  of course, unions are basicaly socialist organizations, so....guess it makes a kind of sense.

One small problem with that theory... Obama didn't start the GM/Chrysler bailout debauckle... Bush did.  But perhaps Bush was trying to buy UAW support for the reupublican candidate?  I'll concede that's a possibility.

Offline deknow

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Re: Letter from a Dodge dealer
« Reply #85 on: June 10, 2009, 01:36:05 AM »
I just have to ask. Does everybody keep missing this part...

"On Thursday, May 14, 2009 I was notified that my Dodge franchise, that we purchased, will be taken away from my family on June 9, 2009 without compensation and given to another dealer at no cost to them."

i read the letter....what would be interesting is to read the contract between the dealership and chrysler.  i'd be willing to bet that it's something i would never agree to, because it likely gives chrysler the right to do exactly this.

if this guy (or his family) agreed to terms like this, well, "a fool and his money were never meant to get together in the first place".

deknow

Online kathyp

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Re: Letter from a Dodge dealer
« Reply #86 on: June 10, 2009, 01:37:41 AM »
Quote
Obama didn't start the GM/Chrysler bailout debauckle... Bush did.


it is true that they got the first loan while bush was still in office.  however, they did not become nationalized with heavy interests going to the unions until obama came into office.
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Bee Happy

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Re: Letter from a Dodge dealer
« Reply #87 on: June 10, 2009, 01:39:37 AM »
i read the letter....what would be interesting is to read the contract between the dealership and chrysler.  i'd be willing to bet that it's something i would never agree to, because it likely gives chrysler the right to do exactly this.

if this guy (or his family) agreed to terms like this, well, "a fool and his money were never meant to get together in the first place".

deknow

There is something referred to as "reasonable expectation" I believe it can nullify a clause like "we can take away your dealership without cause" - the dealer couldn't reasonably expect to have his dealership revoked without cause - although I think chrysler actually did declare bankruptcy which would make the whole conversation kinda moot anyway.
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Offline SgtMaj

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Re: Letter from a Dodge dealer
« Reply #88 on: June 10, 2009, 01:45:14 AM »
I just have to ask. Does everybody keep missing this part...

"On Thursday, May 14, 2009 I was notified that my Dodge franchise, that we purchased, will be taken away from my family on June 9, 2009 without compensation and given to another dealer at no cost to them."

i read the letter....what would be interesting is to read the contract between the dealership and chrysler.  i'd be willing to bet that it's something i would never agree to, because it likely gives chrysler the right to do exactly this.

if this guy (or his family) agreed to terms like this, well, "a fool and his money were never meant to get together in the first place".

deknow

That is a good point.

Offline SgtMaj

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Re: Letter from a Dodge dealer
« Reply #89 on: June 10, 2009, 01:47:43 AM »
Quote
Obama didn't start the GM/Chrysler bailout debauckle... Bush did.


it is true that they got the first loan while bush was still in office.  however, they did not become nationalized with heavy interests going to the unions until obama came into office.

Isn't keeping them open and the UAW employees employed in the first place a heavy interest going to the unions?

Offline Brian D. Bray

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Re: Letter from a Dodge dealer
« Reply #90 on: June 10, 2009, 02:05:08 AM »
The humorous  :devilbanana: result of unintended consequences in the GM & Chrysler bailouts is that now, having an ownership in the company, the union can't afford to make the kinds of demands it has been making for decades because doing so would mean their own end, putting themselves out of work.   :chop:
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Online kathyp

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Re: Letter from a Dodge dealer
« Reply #91 on: June 10, 2009, 02:08:27 AM »
keeping the union employees employed would be more important to this admin than keeping profitable business open, and their employees employed.  we have our priorities, don't we?  guess "the one" knew that taking over individual dealerships would not work.  better just to take the companies and close those pesky things that make the company sales.  wonder what kind of economics that is?  wait....it's on the tip of my tongue.......
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline Bee Happy

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Re: Letter from a Dodge dealer
« Reply #92 on: June 10, 2009, 02:12:57 AM »
Obamanomics?
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Offline SgtMaj

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Re: Letter from a Dodge dealer
« Reply #93 on: June 10, 2009, 02:14:46 AM »
The humorous  :devilbanana: result of unintended consequences in the GM & Chrysler bailouts is that now, having an ownership in the company, the union can't afford to make the kinds of demands it has been making for decades because doing so would mean their own end, putting themselves out of work.   :chop:

Which is why they may not legally be able to collectively bargain for those employees anymore... we'll find out soon enough, because I'll bet it won't take long for an employee to sue the UAW on the grounds that their bargaining was not in the employees best interest.

Offline SgtMaj

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Re: Letter from a Dodge dealer
« Reply #94 on: June 10, 2009, 02:19:20 AM »
keeping the union employees employed would be more important to this admin than keeping profitable business open, and their employees employed.

Well that's what I'm saying... if it's all about Obama scratching the UAW's backs... why did Bush move to keep GM and Chrysler in business in the first place?  If Bush had let them fail last year we wouldn't be in this mess now.

we have our priorities, don't we?  guess "the one" knew that taking over individual dealerships would not work.  better just to take the companies and close those pesky things that make the company sales.

Or cost the company money...

Offline oldenglish

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Re: Letter from a Dodge dealer
« Reply #95 on: June 10, 2009, 02:22:55 AM »
So in about 6-12 months ask your self the following,

Where am I ?

I live in a country where the goverment owns the automobile Industry
I live in a country where the goverment owns the banks
I live in a country where the goverment dictates healthcare

I will give you a clue, Its not Russia !!!

Online kathyp

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Re: Letter from a Dodge dealer
« Reply #96 on: June 10, 2009, 02:26:27 AM »
how does a company that sells stuff, make money when they close the avenue of sales?  you might be able to justify it if they were closing non-profitable dealerships, but they are not.  not only are they closing profitable dealerships, but no comment has been made on the 1000's of people who will be put out of work.  

i believe that the loans and bailout that started under bush were the wrong thing to do.  we have moved a fair pace from a few loans, to nationalization of companies and salary czars, etc.  if you could not accept what bush did, i find it hard to understand how you justify what obama has done.

Quote
I live in a country where the goverment owns the automobile Industry
I live in a country where the goverment owns the banks
I live in a country where the goverment dictates healthcare

you left out a country where the government can dictate salaries!   :-D
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline oldenglish

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Re: Letter from a Dodge dealer
« Reply #97 on: June 10, 2009, 02:32:05 AM »
how does a company that sells stuff, make money when they close the avenue of sales?  you might be able to justify it if they were closing non-profitable dealerships, but they are not.  not only are they closing profitable dealerships, but no comment has been made on the 1000's of people who will be put out of work.  

i believe that the loans and bailout that started under bush were the wrong thing to do.  we have moved a fair pace from a few loans, to nationalization of companies and salary czars, etc.  if you could not accept what bush did, i find it hard to understand how you justify what obama has done.

Quote
I live in a country where the goverment owns the automobile Industry
I live in a country where the goverment owns the banks
I live in a country where the goverment dictates healthcare

you left out a country where the government can dictate salaries!   :-D

The auto industry is doing the same thing that the oil companies do, limit access and drive up the price. Current reserves are the highest they have ever been yet the cost has been going back up all year

Offline SgtMaj

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Re: Letter from a Dodge dealer
« Reply #98 on: June 10, 2009, 03:12:17 AM »
So in about 6-12 months ask your self the following,

Where am I ?

I live in a country where the goverment owns the automobile Industry
I live in a country where the goverment owns the banks
I live in a country where the goverment dictates healthcare

What country would that be?  I don't know because the government in the USA doesn't have any stock in Ford, Toyota, Hyundai, Tesla motors, or any of the other automobile manufacturers... they don't have any stock in at least the bank I bank with... and as far as I can tell they don't dictate healthcare either.  I know you were just exxagerating to make a point.

Offline SgtMaj

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Re: Letter from a Dodge dealer
« Reply #99 on: June 10, 2009, 03:20:59 AM »
how does a company that sells stuff, make money when they close the avenue of sales?  you might be able to justify it if they were closing non-profitable dealerships, but they are not.  not only are they closing profitable dealerships,

The dealerships might be making money, but Chrysler is losing money on those dealerships.

but no comment has been made on the 1000's of people who will be put out of work.

Because no comment needs to be made about them.  This isn't a socialist country yet, we don't owe them a living.  They should have been put out of work last year when the auto manufacturers were asking for the first bailout/handout. 

i believe that the loans and bailout that started under bush were the wrong thing to do.  we have moved a fair pace from a few loans, to nationalization of companies and salary czars, etc.  if you could not accept what bush did, i find it hard to understand how you justify what obama has done.

I certainly don't accept the bailout Obama gave them... I have opposed these bailouts consistently whether they were for the auto manufacturers or the dealerships.  That's more than I can say about the republicans here... who I'm sure would be laying into this guy if he had written his letter from the point of view of a democrat. 

 

anything