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Author Topic: Letter from a Dodge dealer  (Read 9606 times)
Bee Happy
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« Reply #40 on: June 03, 2009, 10:47:51 AM »

Gee, I wish I could snap-judge people so quickly based on their occupation - it would make life so much easier.
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« Reply #41 on: June 03, 2009, 11:44:32 AM »

I know what you all are thinking... "I can't believe SgtMaj would be so silly as to think that a car salesman wouldn't be totally honest... next thing you know he'll be telling us that lawyers and politicians aren't pillars of honesty either."  Well guess what?  They're not.  


       After June 9 2009 he can sell new use cars and new use OME parts.Would you buy a new use car or new use OME parts it full price and no warranty on it  huh huh



                          BEE HAPPY Jim 134  Smiley
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #42 on: June 03, 2009, 11:52:06 AM »

I see we have a letter describing something that is going on. Instead of debating the letter as it is written someone wants to change the whole letter into something totally different. So now we have those talking about the letter as it is written..... and they are correct. then we have those arguing the fantasy letter.... and they are correct also.... about the letter that isn't written.
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« Reply #43 on: June 03, 2009, 12:20:44 PM »

Would this dealer's situation be different if Chrysler had declared bankruptcy with no government "bailout" involved?

...force my family into bankruptcy ...cause our 50+ employees to be unemployed ...

The letter implies he believes it would be different, with its references to government, free market, etc.

This is a serious question. I don't claim to understand the intricacies of bankruptcy, but I do wonder what generally happens to franchises when the mother company goes under.
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« Reply #44 on: June 03, 2009, 01:04:36 PM »

Only if they sell it to other dealers.  The dealership bought the vehicles, they are the dealership's property and problem now.  Just like they would be if GM had closed it's doors forever.

Businesses fail all the time, including dealerships.  It sucks, and I feel sorry for those left holding the empty bag.  And they are dropping like flies right now, and not just dealerships.  No, I don't feel any more sorry for the dealerships than for all the other businesses going under right now and people getting put out of jobs.

If they are stuck with inventory that they purchased as new but they are not allowed to sell it as new, to me that is the same as me selling you a car but after you pay for it I smack a few of the quarterpanels with a sledge hammer.  Not being able to sell the inventory as new, at least until the inventory is depleted is what I have a problem with.  And perhaps that won't be the case at all once they get everything sorted out.

Hmm...does your lack of compassion make you a Baaaad dude?  sheeple
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Rick
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« Reply #45 on: June 03, 2009, 04:01:47 PM »

I know what you all are thinking... "I can't believe SgtMaj would be so silly as to think that a car salesman wouldn't be totally honest... next thing you know he'll be telling us that lawyers and politicians aren't pillars of honesty either."  Well guess what?  They're not.  


       After June 9 2009 he can sell new use cars and new use OME parts.Would you buy a new use car or new use OME parts it full price and no warranty on it  huh huh



                          BEE HAPPY Jim 134  Smiley

They all have full warranties on them because the warranties are provided by the manufacturers, not the dealers.  DUH! 
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SgtMaj
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« Reply #46 on: June 03, 2009, 04:05:04 PM »

Only if they sell it to other dealers.  The dealership bought the vehicles, they are the dealership's property and problem now.  Just like they would be if GM had closed it's doors forever.

Businesses fail all the time, including dealerships.  It sucks, and I feel sorry for those left holding the empty bag.  And they are dropping like flies right now, and not just dealerships.  No, I don't feel any more sorry for the dealerships than for all the other businesses going under right now and people getting put out of jobs.

If they are stuck with inventory that they purchased as new but they are not allowed to sell it as new, to me that is the same as me selling you a car but after you pay for it I smack a few of the quarterpanels with a sledge hammer.  Not being able to sell the inventory as new, at least until the inventory is depleted is what I have a problem with.  And perhaps that won't be the case at all once they get everything sorted out.

Hmm...does your lack of compassion make you a Baaaad dude?  sheeple

He IS allowed to sell them as new!!!!   

This thread is just... sad.  Except for the baaad dude joke.  That was good, gotta give you props on that one.  Cheesy
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Scadsobees
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« Reply #47 on: June 03, 2009, 04:22:44 PM »

So you are saying that this dealership can sell all of these vehicles as new vehicles, with full warranties, and get the factory incentives and discounts that an official dealership gets.

Why would any dealership want to be franchised then?
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Rick
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« Reply #48 on: June 03, 2009, 06:36:35 PM »

Someone please help this old county boy understand a few things:

If a dealer has paid for the franchise and owns his own business/building, how does an auto manufacturer loose money if the dealer is selling their cars? It seems as though a auto manufacturer would want as many dealers selling as many cars as they could.

Steve
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« Reply #49 on: June 03, 2009, 07:31:56 PM »

He IS allowed to sell them as new!!!!   


Here's the rub for me...

Who's right...
An dealer who is trying to drum up some sympathy,
or
A forum poster who has presented no facts other than what he says

I suspect the truth is somewhere in between, but in a pinch I'd pick the person who has at least some credentials. 
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Rick
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« Reply #50 on: June 03, 2009, 07:59:27 PM »

In the state of PA used car dealers can not sell new cars. They can buy a car at wholesale and resell it but can not sell it as new. If you want to sell new GM ,Chrysler or Ford as new you have to be franchised.Take away the franchise,and your options are limited as to how you can sell these units.
 If it weren't this way,why would anyone invest in the franchise,that would just be stupid.

And as far as warranties,did you ever try to sell something and say:
You can take that to my competitor for warranty service.People really don't eat that up,when your competitor has your customer in the door,they are not willingly going to send the good ones back to you.
 

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SgtMaj
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« Reply #51 on: June 03, 2009, 10:11:27 PM »

So you are saying that this dealership can sell all of these vehicles as new vehicles, with full warranties, and get the factory incentives and discounts that an official dealership gets.

Why would any dealership want to be franchised then?


No, he can no longer get the factory incentives and the discounts were already applied when they bought the vehicles to begin with... but yes they still come with full warranties, and yes they can still sell the vehicles as new.

I would imagine that a dealership would want to be franched so that A: they can buy vehicles from the manufacturer, B: they can get training for their service techs, C: they can get paid by the manufacturer for their labor and reimbursed for parts used for warranty repairs done at their location.  D: they can offer their customers an additional financing source through GMAC.

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Jim 134
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« Reply #52 on: June 03, 2009, 10:12:41 PM »

SgtMaj .....

In Mass. you can own sell new cars it a franchise .You can not sell a new cars it a use car lot but you can can sell new use cars but no new manufacturer warranties
 

           BEE HAPPY Jim 134  Smiley
« Last Edit: June 03, 2009, 10:31:57 PM by Jim 134 » Logged

"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
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"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
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SgtMaj
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« Reply #53 on: June 03, 2009, 10:38:19 PM »

Someone please help this old county boy understand a few things:

If a dealer has paid for the franchise and owns his own business/building, how does an auto manufacturer loose money if the dealer is selling their cars? It seems as though a auto manufacturer would want as many dealers selling as many cars as they could.

Steve

They were selling them at a loss because with multiple franchises in the same areas price competition between the franchises were not allowing them to be able to sell vehicles above what it was costing GM to make them (well, in reality what was happening was that GM would spend, (for example) 10 billion on R&D for a new vehicle model, then in mfg they spend (for example) 10 thousand per vehicle to manufacture them with a production run of (for example) 100,000 vehicles of that model.  Now in order to recover their total expenses they don't just have to charge the dealers $10,000 per vehicle, but in this case they would have to charge $110,000 per vehicle just to recover their costs without making any profits.  But of course, dealers in competition with others in the same area are unable to charge that much, thus are unable to move the product... well, once the production run is started, GM has to have those vehicles moving because they have already committed the capital to R&D and for the parts, etc. for manufacturing... so even though they realize they will take a loss overall, they sell the vehicles to the dealers at $20,000 each.  In the end they end up taking a loss though, and that's really what this move is all about is limiting the competition so the dealers can charge more and thus can be charged more.

The only reason this isn't considered price fixing is because GM can do what it wants with it's own franchises... competition still exists within the total market between the makes of vehicles, even though competition between multiple vendors of the same make has been eliminated.
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SgtMaj
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« Reply #54 on: June 03, 2009, 10:49:01 PM »

SgtMaj .....

In Mass. you can own sell new cars it a franchise .You can not sell a new cars it a use car lot but you can can sell new use cars but no new manufacturer warranties
 

           BEE HAPPY Jim 134  Smiley

The manufacturer's warranty on all vehicles runs until the odometer passes the manufacturer's warranty mileage or year range, reguardless of ownership transfers or any other factors.  This has been repeatedly determined in numberous court cases.  So if you buy an '09 Dodge Durrango with 500 miles on it from jim bob down the road for $2... and normally it comes with a 3-year 30,000 mile warranty... well you still have the full manufacturer's warranty on it until you put either 30,000 miles on it or until 2012, whichever comes first.  That applies in all 50 states by the way (as well as the territories of Guam and Puerto Rico).
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« Reply #55 on: June 03, 2009, 10:54:02 PM »

SGTMAJ:
"They were selling them at a loss because with multiple franchises in the same areas price competition between the franchises were not allowing them to be able to sell vehicles above what it was costing GM to make them (well, in reality what was happening was that GM would spend, (for example) 10 billion on R&D for a new vehicle model, then in mfg they spend (for example) 10 thousand per vehicle to manufacture them with a production run of (for example) 100,000 vehicles of that model.  Now in order to recover their total expenses they don't just have to charge the dealers $10,000 per vehicle, but in this case they would have to charge $110,000 per vehicle just to recover their costs without making any profits.  But of course, dealers in competition with others in the same area are unable to charge that much, thus are unable to move the product... well, once the production run is started, GM has to have those vehicles moving because they have already committed the capital to R&D and for the parts, etc. for manufacturing... so even though they realize they will take a loss overall, they sell the vehicles to the dealers at $20,000 each.  In the end they end up taking a loss though, and that's really what this move is all about is limiting the competition so the dealers can charge more and thus can be charged more.
The only reason this isn't considered price fixing is because GM can do what it wants with it's own franchises... competition still exists within the total market between the makes of vehicles, even though competition between multiple vendors of the same make has been eliminated."



Do you even read over what you write?  This makes no sense and is not how the car industry operates. Out of 4000 members your the only one I plan on blocking the view of all of your posts so I never see them again.
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SgtMaj
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« Reply #56 on: June 03, 2009, 11:12:08 PM »

Do you even read over what you write?  This makes no sense and is not how the car industry operates. Out of 4000 members your the only one I plan on blocking the view of all of your posts so I never see them again.

Well I would ask you to enlighten us then, but since you won't see this... oh well, no great loss either way there.
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hankdog1
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« Reply #57 on: June 04, 2009, 01:53:34 PM »

I know what you all are thinking... "I can't believe SgtMaj would be so silly as to think that a car salesman wouldn't be totally honest... next thing you know he'll be telling us that lawyers and politicians aren't pillars of honesty either."  Well guess what?  They're not.  


       After June 9 2009 he can sell new use cars and new use OME parts.Would you buy a new use car or new use OME parts it full price and no warranty on it  huh huh



                          BEE HAPPY Jim 134  Smiley

They all have full warranties on them because the warranties are provided by the manufacturers, not the dealers.  DUH! 

SrgMaj just wondering how much experince you have in the field?  I sold cars at a Chevrolet Chrysler Dodge Jeep dealership at one time.  So let me lay it out for you about how those "warranties" work.  When he loses his dealership the guy also loses a big selling tool "Chrysler's Limited Lifetime Powertrain Warrenty" the bumper to bumper will stay in tact as you say.  Now being a dealer he might even sell certified preowned used Chrysler products which carry an extended warrenty because thier cerified that goes down the tolet without Chrysler's name up out frount.  Those parts are pretty much worthless to the guy as a large part of your business at a dealership is service.  How can you do service if your no longer a dealer?  There are people that only have thier cars and trucks worked on by Chrysler Cerified Master Mechanics.  I know the concept of customer loyalty is escaping you as you have said everyone in the car business is the scum of the earth from the quote above.  Okay now we move on to another point that you haven't taken into consideration is that by losing his dealership those new used cars on the lot now are priced higher then those at other lots because they have to be sold without rebates and Chrysler Financial's incentives.  Of course this will be taken with a grain of salt considering i actually worked at a dealership and therefore lose all credability with you. 
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« Reply #58 on: June 04, 2009, 04:11:28 PM »

SgtMjr, you should be glad I have alexythemia (loss of feelings) or I'd get real adjutated with your obnoxious run-a-round. 
You remind me of an Uncle by marriage I had.  He bragged he never lost a debate.  He also called his in-laws with college degrees educated idiots.  To hear him tell it he knew everything about everything.
While "debating" someone raised a point that he couldn't counter he would raise his voice.  Soon his voice got so loud that those he was "debating" with walked away in defense of their hearing.  That's how he never lost a debate.

I would have to peg you as the ciber version of my Uncle Art.

If you can't beat the beat a dead horse to death you  hissy fit beat a dead horse to death.

I have to agree with pdmattox, you have proven yourself a bit of a bore.
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« Reply #59 on: June 04, 2009, 08:17:40 PM »

SrgMaj just wondering how much experince you have in the field?  I sold cars at a Chevrolet Chrysler Dodge Jeep dealership at one time.  So let me lay it out for you about how those "warranties" work.  When he loses his dealership the guy also loses a big selling tool "Chrysler's Limited Lifetime Powertrain Warrenty" the bumper to bumper will stay in tact as you say.  Now being a dealer he might even sell certified preowned used Chrysler products which carry an extended warrenty because thier cerified that goes down the tolet without Chrysler's name up out frount.  Those parts are pretty much worthless to the guy as a large part of your business at a dealership is service.  How can you do service if your no longer a dealer?  There are people that only have thier cars and trucks worked on by Chrysler Cerified Master Mechanics.  I know the concept of customer loyalty is escaping you as you have said everyone in the car business is the scum of the earth from the quote above.  Okay now we move on to another point that you haven't taken into consideration is that by losing his dealership those new used cars on the lot now are priced higher then those at other lots because they have to be sold without rebates and Chrysler Financial's incentives.  Of course this will be taken with a grain of salt considering i actually worked at a dealership and therefore lose all credability with you. 

Absolutely none, thanks for clarifying all of that... none of which changes the fact that he's asking for another hand out and that he can still sell the cars as new (albeit it will be a little more difficult for him)... nor the fact that he's still better off than if GM had just gone out of business.

So what do you think we should do, feel sorry for the guy and give his and all the other dealerships some of our tax dollars? 
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