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Author Topic: SHB maybe????  (Read 2333 times)
charlotte
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« on: May 27, 2009, 06:46:05 PM »

Hi All!
So upon inspecting my hives the other day, my new package that has been in a couple weeks has a pollen patty on.  Munching on it were some small beetles 1/8"?? They were black with a brownish stripe running horizontally across it's back.  I squashed what I saw & removed the patty.  They don't look like the pics I have seen of SHB, but I suppose maybe they are & came in the package.  Does anyone know of some other kind of beetle that is found in hives?  They seemed much more slender & different coloration than what I think SHB looks like.  I am going to install a couple of AJ's beetle eaters, just in case.  Any thoughts on the matter are appreciated!!

Thanks.
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charlotte
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« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2009, 07:27:23 PM »

One more thing...the beetles did not run as I opened the hive.  They just stayed where they were.  I thought SHB run to the dark huh
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SlickMick
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« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2009, 07:33:29 PM »

Hi Charlotte, post a pic or two if you can

Mick
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On the outer Barcoo where the churches are few,
   And men of religion are scanty,
On a road never cross'd 'cept by folk that are lost,
   One Michael Magee had a shanty.

Now this Mike was the dad of a ten-year-old lad,
   Plump, healthy, and stoutly conditioned;
He was strong as the best, but poor Mike had no rest
   For the youngster had never been christened,
A BUSH CHRISTENING - A.B. "Banjo" Paterson http://www.middlemiss.org/lit/authors/patersonab/poetry/christen.html
dhood
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« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2009, 09:27:03 PM »

Small Hive beetle

Sapp Beetle

I have seen various pest in the hives before but I dont think that they do any harm, the SHB is a type of sapp beetle so if it looks similar but different in ways and characteristics than I would search a few sapp beetles. Hope this helps, Daniel
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charlotte
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« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2009, 09:44:44 PM »

Thanks a ton Daniel!  Smiley  I checked out the links & did some searching about the sap beetle & saw pics.  Yep- that is exactly what I think it is.  From what I read- they are not a problem.  Is this your thoughts as well??

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dhood
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« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2009, 09:52:11 PM »

Yes, as far as I know the SHB are the only beetle that causes problems in the hives.
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asprince
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« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2009, 09:56:11 PM »

Thanks a ton Daniel!  Smiley  I checked out the links & did some searching about the sap beetle & saw pics.  Yep- that is exactly what I think it is.  From what I read- they are not a problem.  Is this your thoughts as well??



If your have has a weak spot, you will know for sure in a few days. When you see the maggots and slime you will know that it was SHB and not sap beetles.

I hope that you are correct.

Steve
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Scadsobees
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« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2009, 10:25:37 PM »

Even if they are SHB they shouldn't pose a problem to you in wisconsin.  They are present all year here in MI but are rarely a problem (and problems arise usually only through gross mismanagement).
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Rick
charlotte
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« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2009, 01:32:27 PM »



Here is a pic of one of the the little critters. Today I put one in a jar to get a better look, instead of smashing it.  I think it must be a sap beetle??  I put a cookie sheet with oil under my SBB to trap any that fall thru.  Only saw a couple today after removing the pollen patty. I think they don't do much harm, but they are still gross!!  Thanks everyone for the help- it is appreciated!
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Scadsobees
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« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2009, 04:01:32 PM »

Not SHB.  But might be attracted to the pollen patty.  They usually go for fruit and fermented fruit.

No worries.
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Rick
Natalie
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« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2009, 04:40:30 PM »

When you say they aren't a problem in wisconsin is it because they cannot survive the cold?
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SlickMick
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« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2009, 05:56:52 PM »

I understand that they over-winter in the cluster but I hope that someone with more knowledge than me on this aspect will clarify the situation.

Mick
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On the outer Barcoo where the churches are few,
   And men of religion are scanty,
On a road never cross'd 'cept by folk that are lost,
   One Michael Magee had a shanty.

Now this Mike was the dad of a ten-year-old lad,
   Plump, healthy, and stoutly conditioned;
He was strong as the best, but poor Mike had no rest
   For the youngster had never been christened,
A BUSH CHRISTENING - A.B. "Banjo" Paterson http://www.middlemiss.org/lit/authors/patersonab/poetry/christen.html
sc-bee
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« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2009, 11:02:48 PM »

They will overwinter in a cluster, But I think colder climates still give them trouble. They will pupate in the hive but I believe (at this point) ground pupation is the major mode of spread. I believe this is where the colder climate plays in.
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luvin honey
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« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2009, 12:26:34 AM »

Well, that answers another question. I have been wondering if SHBs had made it this far north yet. Guess they have...

Scadsobees--Can you explain more of what you mean by gross mismanagement? Do you mean leaving pollen patties lying around? Or failing to trap for beetles? Now that I know they are this far north, I don't want to be a gross mismanager!
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The pedigree of honey
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A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
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SlickMick
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« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2009, 08:56:23 AM »

Well, that answers another question. I have been wondering if SHBs had made it this far north yet. Guess they have...

Scadsobees--Can you explain more of what you mean by gross mismanagement? Do you mean leaving pollen patties lying around? Or failing to trap for beetles? Now that I know they are this far north, I don't want to be a gross mismanager!

There are a number of management practices you need to put in place to control the SHB. Firstly you have to realise that you will ever only control it, you wont get rid of it.

Management practices relate to things that contribute to its control

The SHB dont do so well in full sun as they do in the shade. If you can give your bees full sun then do so, if not you have to be more vigilant.

Get some SHB traps into your hives. There are a few types. Base board traps such as coreflute sandwiches or oil traps and frame top traps such as AJ’s or home made ones will help control the beetle in the hive. They wont control the larva. The traps assist by helping to control the egg laying capacity of the beetle which is massive.  Oil based bottom board traps will sometimes snare the larva as it attempts to exit the hive. If you want to see pics of how I made mine pm me with your email address and I will send them to you.

It is important to ensure that your frames are fully covered by bees, The beetle likes to hide in empty comb and also in any little crack that might exist. If you have frames that aren’t covered then take them out and replace with a follower board. Add frames when you have enough bees to cover it/them

Some hives have proactive bees that harass the shb constantly others not so much. Keep bees that work hard in protecting their space.

Keep your hives on hard ground so that the larva cannot dig into it where it pupates. Some beeks use concrete to do this or use lime under the hives to dry the larva out. Dimetaceous earth can also do this.

Inspect your hives regularly and zap any beetle you see. It is worth doing a full inspection if you are unsure of what you have. They don’t like the sunlight so take the top off the hive and put it on the ground upside down. Check any frames you have in that box and then place that box on the upturned top. Check the frames in the next box and place that on the box sitting on the lid. Keep doing this until you have done the whole hive. You should by now see beetle hiding on the bottom board if you have them. Zap them with your hive tool. Your bees should be actively chasing them. Replace each box until you are left with the top on the ground. Again you should see them running around or hiding if you have them. Zap them and replace the lid.

If you do have them then you do need to be careful and to get traps in place. It is the larva that does the damage to your honey crop. Heavy infestations will mean the loss of your hive unless you can get it under control quickly.

Hope this helps with your question. No management is mismanagement

Mick

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On the outer Barcoo where the churches are few,
   And men of religion are scanty,
On a road never cross'd 'cept by folk that are lost,
   One Michael Magee had a shanty.

Now this Mike was the dad of a ten-year-old lad,
   Plump, healthy, and stoutly conditioned;
He was strong as the best, but poor Mike had no rest
   For the youngster had never been christened,
A BUSH CHRISTENING - A.B. "Banjo" Paterson http://www.middlemiss.org/lit/authors/patersonab/poetry/christen.html
Scadsobees
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« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2009, 09:59:44 AM »

Well, that answers another question. I have been wondering if SHBs had made it this far north yet. Guess they have...

Scadsobees--Can you explain more of what you mean by gross mismanagement? Do you mean leaving pollen patties lying around? Or failing to trap for beetles? Now that I know they are this far north, I don't want to be a gross mismanager!

Mismanagement....I'm not 100% sure, but I haven't had a huge problem with SHB, and a few of the mismanagements that I've done:

If you leave any frames of honey or pollen laying around, out of the hive, the beetles will get to it quickly (the moths would anyway, but I find that they aren't as quick). Leaving wet supers  stacked in a shed is an invitation to the beetles.  Yes, pollen patties can attract them.

I've never trapped beetles, and while I usually see the beetles around, I've never had a problem in a full size hive, even a hive that is stressed out.

I'd imagine that if you had a stressed, depopulated hive for some reason in July or August that you'd want to reduce them to the minimum possible size to reduce the amount of area that they have to defend.  Outside of those months I don't think there is a big problem with SHB.  I wouldn't lose any sleep over SHB in a northern climate!!!  They rate about the same level as moths up here.

Rick
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Rick
luvin honey
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« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2009, 11:00:11 PM »

Thanks Scadsobees and slickmick for the thoughtful replies! I will find a good picture of the hive beetle to know exactly what to look for. So far, I've only seen ants between the cover and topbars...

It's good to know that there's at least one perk of beekeeping in the north! If we have to deal with overwintering, at least the beetles have a hard time of it, too Smiley

My bees are in full sun until afternoon, then dapplied shade. The hives are mounted on cedar posts and 2x4s, so they are anywhere from 1 1/2-3 feet off the ground. I think this will help them in a lot of ways.

Thanks again!

luvin honey
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The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson
rast
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« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2009, 08:25:58 PM »

 Yep, the higher they are (within reason) the better the bees like it. However FYI, SHB can fly.
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