Need Bees Removed?
International
Beekeeping Forums
September 19, 2014, 02:47:57 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: 24/7 Ventrilo Voice chat -click for instructions and free software here
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar bee removal Login Register Chat  

Pages: 1 [2]  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: I think I saw him squirm  (Read 2977 times)
dragonfly
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 468

Location: 30 mi west of DFW, Tx


« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2009, 08:50:49 AM »

Actually I hate to speak up in palestine's defense, but Sharon was sneaky and antagonistic. (the wall that crept into palestine about [5?] miles)


I understand what you are saying, but I would be rather antagonistic too if I was surrounded by people who wanted nothing less than the total destruction of my and my people.
Logged
BeeHopper
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1122

Location: Hopelessly Lost


« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2009, 09:53:19 AM »

There was once a time when the Israelis and Palestinians have coexisted in relative peace, what happened ?
Fatah, Hamas, Hezbollah, PLO ( not in that order) they have done nothing to help the cause of their own people but to brainwash hate into them and sacrifice them for their own agenda, not to mention the millions of dollars they received in aid squandered. Israel has the right to exist as well as the Palestinians, but the rest of the Arab world likes to use them as pawns.

Obama nor Hillary will fix this, nobody can on the outside. Only Israel and the Palestanians without outside influence just might be able to pull it off. ( My 2 Cents )
Logged
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 15147


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2009, 10:16:01 AM »

Quote
There was once a time when the Israelis and Palestinians have coexisted in relative peace, what happened ?


there are a lot of components, but i'll try to give you the short version.

in the early 20th century, Russian and some European Jews began to migrate back to the area known as Palestine.  this is the biblical and historical site of the nation of Israel.  there were not many Arabs in the area because the land sucked.  the Jews that came in and the Arabs that lived there did work together to reclaim land, build stuff, etc.  the area was controlled by the Brits and no one really cared about it.

post ww2, the Brits agreed to turn the area over.  the Arab countries were directed to divide the land 25% to Israel, 75% to the "Palestinians".  at this point, i put Palestinian in quotes because there were a bunch of Muslims in Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon, and Syria, who had decided that the Arab countries needed to be united as the nation of Palestine.  they called themselves "Palestinians" and they were a real problem for the Arab countries. (and Egypt)

the Arab countries needed a place to dump these people.  at the same time, they were really ticked off that Israel had successfully established itself.  they promised the entire area of Palestine to the "Palestinians" and other Muslims, and attacked Israel.  that didn't work well.  they were left with people they needed to dump.  no promised land to dump them.  bad PR after losing to a piddly little bunch of Jews.

the Arab countries also had a growing terrorism problems in their own countries.  the Islamist movement was growing and it was aimed at Arab governments that were deemed "westernized".  the solution for those Arab countries was to use the Palestinian plight, which these governments had helped create, as a distraction.  they pointed the terrorists at Israel, and countries that supported Israel.  out of these groups came the leaders of Al-Qaeda and all those you mentioned.

that's a pretty abbreviated history, but.....
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
BeeHopper
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1122

Location: Hopelessly Lost


« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2009, 11:08:02 AM »

Quote
There was once a time when the Israelis and Palestinians have coexisted in relative peace, what happened ?


there are a lot of components, but i'll try to give you the short version.

in the early 20th century, Russian and some European Jews began to migrate back to the area known as Palestine.  this is the biblical and historical site of the nation of Israel.  there were not many Arabs in the area because the land sucked.  the Jews that came in and the Arabs that lived there did work together to reclaim land, build stuff, etc.  the area was controlled by the Brits and no one really cared about it.

post ww2, the Brits agreed to turn the area over.  the Arab countries were directed to divide the land 25% to Israel, 75% to the "Palestinians".  at this point, i put Palestinian in quotes because there were a bunch of Muslims in Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon, and Syria, who had decided that the Arab countries needed to be united as the nation of Palestine.  they called themselves "Palestinians" and they were a real problem for the Arab countries. (and Egypt)

the Arab countries needed a place to dump these people.  at the same time, they were really ticked off that Israel had successfully established itself.  they promised the entire area of Palestine to the "Palestinians" and other Muslims, and attacked Israel.  that didn't work well.  they were left with people they needed to dump.  no promised land to dump them.  bad PR after losing to a piddly little bunch of Jews.

the Arab countries also had a growing terrorism problems in their own countries.  the Islamist movement was growing and it was aimed at Arab governments that were deemed "westernized".  the solution for those Arab countries was to use the Palestinian plight, which these governments had helped create, as a distraction.  they pointed the terrorists at Israel, and countries that supported Israel.  out of these groups came the leaders of Al-Qaeda and all those you mentioned.

that's a pretty abbreviated history, but.....


Yes  Smiley

Some folks don't believe it, but there are Muslim Communities inside the borders of Israel living in harmony, you just don't hear about it.  Smiley
Logged
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 15147


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2009, 11:12:34 AM »

i think many people do not understand that Palestinian refers to two different groups.  the original residents of the area of Palestine and the members of the Palestinian movement, who were not from the area.

unfortunately, the original Palestinians suffered because of the second group.
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Bee Happy
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1656


Location: Between Panama city, Florida and Dothan Al.

that's me - setting a phoenix free


« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2009, 11:38:47 AM »

I think the best example in the world of religious tolerance and freedom was Morocco; their marketplace(s) had people of all religions, basically providing services to each other that their faith considered wrong to do but not wrong to patronize. (lending money and charging interest for example). Each saw the other's value - I honestly can't say what morocco is like now, but it proves that with patience on all sides it can work.
Logged

be happy and make others happy.
dragonfly
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 468

Location: 30 mi west of DFW, Tx


« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2009, 01:14:20 PM »

  the original residents of the area of Palestine and the members of the Palestinian movement, who were not from the area.

unfortunately, the original Palestinians suffered because of the second group.

If I remember correctly, I believe I read that the "original" Palestinians were Syrian. huh Not sure, but it's what I recall.
Logged
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 15147


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2009, 01:18:27 PM »

Quote
If I remember correctly, I believe I read that the "original" Palestinians were Syrian

many may have been.  they were more tribal. many nomadic herdsmen.  some had groves and farms where there was water.  it was tough land and there were not many permanent residents.
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
dragonfly
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 468

Location: 30 mi west of DFW, Tx


« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2009, 01:25:28 PM »

I think the best example in the world of religious tolerance and freedom was Morocco; their marketplace(s) had people of all religions, basically providing services to each other that their faith considered wrong to do but not wrong to patronize.

I have one Moroccan acquaintance/friend. I've never asked him anything specific about his culture, but he seems fairly "westernized", wrt attitudes, acceptance of other cultural/religious practices, etc.
Logged
tlozo
New Bee
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 33

Location: Catskills, NY


« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2009, 05:01:32 PM »

Quote
If I remember correctly, I believe I read that the "original" Palestinians were Syrian

many may have been.  they were more tribal. many nomadic herdsmen.  some had groves and farms where there was water.  it was tough land and there were not many permanent residents.

During the war, between 700,000 and 750,000 Palestinian Arabs fled or were expelled from the areas that were later known as Israel in 1949
Logged
dragonfly
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 468

Location: 30 mi west of DFW, Tx


« Reply #30 on: May 21, 2009, 05:37:29 PM »

Wiki has a pretty good page on the Palestinians, if you consider Wiki a legitimate source of information (which I realize some don't):

Quote
The Greek toponym Palaistinę (Παλαιστίνη), with which the Arabic Filastin (فلسطين) is cognate, first occurs in the work of the Greek historian Herodotus, active in the middle of the 5th century BCE, where it denotes generally[14] the coastal land from Phoenicia down to Egypt.[15][16] Herodotus also employs the term as an ethnonym, as when he speaks of the 'Syrians of Palestine' or 'Palestinian-Syrians',[17] an ethnically amorphous group he distinguishes from the Phoenicians referring to the Aramaeic Samaritans led by Sanbalat and appointed by the Persian kings and the Arabs in Jerusalem referred to also by Ezra (the Bible).[18] The word bears comparison to a congeries of ethnonyms in Semitic languages, Ancient Egyptian Plst or flst, Assyrian as Palastu, and the Hebraic as Plishtim, the latter term used in the Bible to signify the Philistines.[19]
Syria Palestina continued to be used by historians and geographers and others to refer to the area between the Mediterranean sea and the Jordan river, as in the writings of Philo, Josephus and Pliny the Elder. After the Romans adopted the term as the official administrative name for the region in the 2nd century AD, "Palestine" as a stand alone term came into widespread use, printed on coins, in inscriptions and even in rabbinic texts.
Logged
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 15147


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #31 on: May 21, 2009, 05:45:33 PM »

your numbers may be correct.  the question is who where these Palestinians and why did they leave?  some were the original residents of the area of Palestine.  many were those from the Palestinian movement who had been encouraged to move or even expelled from Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon.  

the reason the UN mandated the formation of a previously unknown Palestinian state along with the re-formation of the nation of Israel, is that the Arab countries were having a heck of a time with the Palestinian movement.  the goal of the movement was to create a unified Arab state under Islamic law.  the unified state would be known as Palestine.  their reasons were 1. that the Arab countries as they existed, were created by arbitrary borders drawn by imperialistic Europeans and 2.  that Arab countries had become to westernized and needed to come back to pure Islam.

a compromise solution was deemed to be the formation of a separate nation of Palestine, however, the Arab countries failed to create the nation.  they encouraged the folks to move into the area and even expelled the troublemakers into Palestine.  then they promised the "Palestinians" that when they destroyed the newly re-formed nation of Israel, the entire region would be given over as a Palestinian homeland.

when they lost the war, they had a bunch of folks with no home and a hostile Israel (with good reason).  basically a bunch of refugees who were not welcome in the Arab countries, were not welcome in Israel, and had no resources.  they also ended up with crappy leaders who sold them out, Arab countries that used them as fuel against Israel and the west, and now generations of brainwashing and hate.

there is no incentive on the part of the Arab countries to solve this problem. they have jihadist movements that threaten their own governments.  it is convenient to hold up the plight of the Palestinians as a distraction for these jihadists.  better to point them at Israel and anyone who supports Israel, than to have them destroy the governments of the Arab countries.

it would take a regional effort to solve the problem, but there is no heart for it.  if the people can not chose leadership that will work toward a solution instead of banking billions of aid dollars in France, there is no hope for the Palestinians.
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 15147


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #32 on: May 21, 2009, 05:50:19 PM »

the area of Palestine was huge.  it was not a nation, but a region.  it would be the same as saying you live in the southwest.  you might live in AZ, but the region is the southwest.   
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
Pages: 1 [2]  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Beemaster's Beekeeping Ring
Previous | Home | Join | Random | Next
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.961 seconds with 21 queries.

Google visited last this page September 16, 2014, 01:58:16 PM
anything