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Author Topic: I think I saw him squirm  (Read 2892 times)
dragonfly
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« on: May 20, 2009, 09:52:12 PM »

I was shocked when I saw a segment of the press conference given by the prez and Benjamin Netanyahu. I've never seen the prez look like he was on the defensive, but I think he was after his meeting with the Israeli PM.  Obama looked like he wanted to become one with his chair, and would not look at Netanyahu even when referring to him.   The prime minister had a definite assertive sitting posture and a direct eye on the prez.

Sorry guys, if it bores any of you, but psychological and sociological signals and behaviors are a special interest of mine. This was a fascinating look at personal interaction and reaction.
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kathyp
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« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2009, 10:02:18 PM »

i noticed that also.  he was all hunched in and looked like he'd rather be anywhere else.  i don't think he's used to people disagreeing with him.  my guess is that old bebe gave him a straight forward opinion of obamas mid-east plans. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2009, 10:09:56 PM »

Not only a straight-forward opinion, but perhaps an ultimatum. Wink
I find Bibi's no-nonsense approach refreshing in the world of politics. Smiley He seems to be a man who says what he means and is willing to back it up.
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kathyp
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« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2009, 10:15:16 PM »

is it bibi or bebe?  i find it spelled both way.  yours looks right(er)  grin.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2009, 10:25:46 PM »

From what I understand, the actual original spelling of his name is Binyamin. I think that is where the Bibi came from, but I'm not certain. That's just how I have seen it spelled. Your spelling may actually be the correct one. My own personal tendency is Benjie. grin
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deknow
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« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2009, 10:38:44 PM »

uhhh, his name is spelled in hebrew...any english writing of it is a transliteration.....no wrong spelling.

i didn't see the exchange, but i can imagine it.  i like netanyahu, and i have some hope that he is enough of a hardass to change the dynamic in the middle east for the better.

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dragonfly
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« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2009, 10:49:49 PM »


i didn't see the exchange, but i can imagine it.  i like netanyahu, and i have some hope that he is enough of a hardass to change the dynamic in the middle east for the better.


I like him too, and have held him in high regard for quite some time. I hope your are right about his ability to change the ME dynamic. My fear is that we (as in our nation) won't support one our most loyal friends in the world (as in Israel) as things stand today.

Btw, I realize his given name is in Hebrew, but I've seen the Binyamin spelling as a translation by Israelis. I just figured Europeans changed it to the English Biblical translation spelling.
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deknow
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« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2009, 11:01:45 PM »

yes, i think there is a wide gap between the reality of living in (and governing/protecting) israel and how many (including the new administration) would like things to be.  the u.n. has been lousy on all fronts.

the good news is that i don't think that in the big poker game being played, that netanyahu is at all intimidated or feels constrained.  obama may well be good for israel in these times, as in a way, it's hands seem untied (especially considering the recent iranian missle test).

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Bee Happy
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« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2009, 11:04:12 PM »

I'd gladly search for footage  - anyone know the date of the conference?
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dragonfly
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« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2009, 11:13:14 PM »

A sizeable portion of the UN is blatantly anti-Semitic. As far as I am concerned, that organization needs to be disbanded altogether.

You may be right that Netanyahu feels unconstrained, which is a good thing imo, but Israel is completely surrounded by her enemies, who would like to see Israel destroyed. Although they are militarily excellent and unafraid, I'm not sure how they can take on an all-out assault on that many fronts. It's not that I expect that, but I have no faith in the reasonableness of many leaders in the ME in the event that things get heated up.
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dragonfly
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« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2009, 11:14:41 PM »

I'd gladly search for footage  - anyone know the date of the conference?

I believe it was yesterday, but I'm not certain.
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« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2009, 11:20:26 PM »

well, that's exactly what they did in '67....and they have nucs.

the only way to win this that i see is to simply build a wall.  every rocket, homocide bomber or other attack gets a consistent and completely disproportionate response.  no outrage, no scrambling to figure out what to do, just a detached and automatic response.

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« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2009, 11:31:05 PM »

I'd gladly search for footage  - anyone know the date of the conference?

I believe it was yesterday, but I'm not certain.

Ok, I'd have to know the network too, it seems that whenever Netanyahu spoke with a degree of assertion, the camera was not to be found pointing at Obama. (I doubt it's a coincidence) - I searched in you tube and watched as much as  I could stand. - then I wound up lost in al jazeera english.
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dragonfly
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« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2009, 11:40:35 PM »

It's not Israel's nucs I am worried about. It's the general trend of taking a passive stance  in the European world over the past 40-50 years.
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dragonfly
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« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2009, 11:47:50 PM »


Ok, I'd have to know the network too, it seems that whenever Netanyahu spoke with a degree of assertion, the camera was not to be found pointing at Obama.

The segment I saw was not of Netanyahu speaking. The only one doing the talking was Obama. Apparently, after their private meeting, there was a news conference and Obama was droning on about the need to achieve a peace agreement in the ME. During this conference, he referred to Netahyahu, and pointed in his direction, but did not look at him. Netanyahu, otoh, sat forward in his chair with a direct glance toward Obama during the entire time segment I saw. It  really appeared quite strained on Obama's part. Not at all what we are used to seeing.
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dragonfly
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« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2009, 11:57:42 PM »

the only way to win this that i see is to simply build a wall.  every rocket, homocide bomber or other attack gets a consistent and completely disproportionate response.  no outrage, no scrambling to figure out what to do, just a detached and automatic response.


I agree. The problem is that the majority of the world these days can't handle detached and automatic. Most of the media portrays Israelis as agressors when they defend their own people and their borders. They play on the emotions of people who are ignorant of the history of the Jewish state. 
What is your personal opinion of a two-state solution?
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kathyp
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« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2009, 12:13:13 AM »

you have to have honest brokers on both sides for a solution.  since the "palestinians" do not have an honest broker, and hamas seems to hold sway with most of the people, i see no solution.  also, it is not in the best interest of the other arab states for their to be a solution.  as long as there is a palestinian problem to point the radical toward, the heat can be deflected from the more moderate arab states.  it was the surrounding arab states that caused the problem in the first place, but they have been successful in re-writing history for their own benefit.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2009, 12:15:26 AM »

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=obama+netinyahoo+press+conference&hl=en&emb=0&aq=f#hl=en&emb=0&aq=f&q=obama+netanyahu+press+conference

http://www.foxnews.com/search-results/m/22317300/diplomatic-agenda.htm#q=obama+netanyahu+press+conference

this has some interesting angles also.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2009, 01:29:23 AM »

Actually I hate to speak up in palestine's defense, but Sharon was sneaky and antagonistic. (the wall that crept into palestine about [5?] miles)

having said that Netanyahu is a new guy and deserves a fair chance.
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« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2009, 08:02:19 AM »

BiBi has been around the neighborhood ( Politically and Militarily speaking ) quite a few times, Barack, on the other hand, is an infant and will never ( grow up ) and have the Courage to stand up to face the situations that BiBi or any Statesman has encountered in the past, present, and future. Israel will do whatever it takes to survive with or without us.
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